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Unboxing It with Lara and Rowan

Unboxing It with Lara and Rowan

By: Lara Wellman
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 Lara Wellman and Rowan Jetté Knox are here to unpack all the topics that have us feeling confused, that keep us feeling small or stuck in shame, and that stop us from thriving as our authentic selves.

unboxingit.substack.comLara Wellman and Rowan Jetté Knox Social Sciences
Episodes
  • 7: Saying No

    7: Saying No
    Jun 17 2025
    Lara is speaking at a conference this week on a topic we immediately knew would be a good one for us to Unbox - Saying No. Non. Nej. Tidak. Hapana. It’s a word in just about every language because it’s a crucial one. (Rowan wanted to list about 40 more of them because he’s a language nerd. He would like to point out his self-restraint here.)Yet, despite its importance, the word “no” can come with a flurry of feelings both for the person who hears it and the one who says it. In this episode, we’re focusing on the latter. Why is saying “no” so difficult for some of us? What lessons did society teach us that make it harder? And what, if anything, can we do to make it easier? Is there a mindset shift that needs to happen? Does we get better at it over time?These are the thoughts we carry with us into this episode, and we hope something we said here helps make this small but powerful word a simpler one to use.No.Cha.Ora.Jo.(We’d better wrap this up before Rowan gets carried away again.)Transcript (please note, we don’t edit these so there could be some errors in the transcription)[00:00:00] Rowan: There are actually billions of people on the planet.you don't have to be the one to say yes to everything. it's that simple and I wish I had always known it was that simple, Because I didn't, I really thought for some reason that if I didn't do certain things, the sky would fall. Welcome back to unboxing it. I'm Lara.And I'm Rowan,[00:00:45] Lara: and we are going to talk about something today that I wanted to bring up. I am going to be speaking about this topic at a conference soon, and it is something that I know a lot of people struggle with and are honestly kind of afraid of, and it is the idea of figuring out how to say no.[00:01:05] Rowan: No, look, I just did it. Alright. Thanks for joining us today.[00:01:11] Lara: Um, yeah. Done just like this? No,[00:01:14] Rowan: no. Yeah. You can say it a bunch of way. You go nah or nope, nope. Is an option. Yep. I digress. I'm just, I'm just teasing. I actually have a really hard time saying no sometimes, so I'm looking forward to this episode.[00:01:26] Lara: Yeah, it's something that we struggle with. You know, I'm speaking at a conference where it's about specifically in the workplace. and so it can come up in lots of different ways where we feel like we should be agreeable, we should say yes, we should. And you know, should is not my favorite word. do what we can for people when they ask us to.However, doing everything all of the time for everybody, regardless of whether or not we have capacity is not good for anybody.[00:02:00] Rowan: You know what really gets me is that there are people who are just inherently good at saying no to things. I've met them, I've asked them for things, and they've said no.[00:02:11] Lara: Yeah,[00:02:11] Rowan: and I'm never really upset that they said no. I think just as somebody who's had to learn how to do it and doesn't always do it incredibly well, I'm more just in awe of them. And I think, you know, what is it? Is it upbringing? Were you just born like that? you know, or did you actually learn it?But it's so seamlessly a part of your life now that it doesn't seem like you're trying, it's just like rolls off the tongue.[00:02:40] Lara: It's probably all of those things depending on the person. And I think the more confident we are in why we're saying no, in the fact that we are not obligated to do things that don't work for us, the easier it gets to start saying it.And with so many of these things that we talk about, it's not easy at the beginning,[00:03:00] Lara: but it does get easier.[00:03:02] Rowan: it does get easier from experience. It really does. But let's start at the beginning, like why do you think some people have a hard time saying, no,[00:03:11] Lara: we're meant to be agreeable.That's how we've been told to be right. This goes back to all the societal expectations we have. We're meant to be agreeable. We're meant to try to be helpful as much as possible. we're meant to be selfless and saying no might feel selfish.[00:03:29] Rowan: Ooh, that word.[00:03:30] Lara: Mm-hmm.[00:03:31] Rowan: Nobody likes that word. Nobody likes to align themselves with the idea of being selfish.Right.[00:03:38] Lara: Which is what Saying no can feel like. If somebody asks you for something, and again, like I work with a lot of people, in their businesses who struggle with saying no. And some of it is they no longer have the capacity to do it all, and they really want to help, right? Somebody's asking them for something and they want to be able to do it.So how do you say no when it makes you feel like they need this help and I can do it. it feels so difficult and misaligned to say no, but again, we cannot do everything for everyone. It is simply not possible.[00:04:17] Rowan: So maybe also a bit of guilt or even shame, like if I don't help this person, if I don't do this thing that I know I technically can do if I ...
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    42 mins
  • 6: Asking for help

    6: Asking for help
    Jun 10 2025
    In a world where we revere how impressive people are for doing things “all on their own” no wonder we struggle with asking for help. This week we talk about why it’s hard to ask for help, how we can start to get more comfortable asking for help, and a little bit about how we just like each other.Things we referencedJenny Mitchell’s book - Embracing AmbitionOur episode on people pleasingTranscript[00:00:00] Rowan: I'm making myself very vulnerable, and when I make myself very vulnerable, I'm opening myself up to criticism. And I think that is a big reason why people don't ask for help. Welcome to this episode of Unboxing It. I am Rowan.And I'm Lara.And today we are going to talk about a thing that I think is gonna make some people feel called out learning to ask for help.[00:00:51] Lara: Although I will say sounds like from some of the feedback that we've gotten from the podcast so far, potentially most of our episodes are making people feel called out.[00:01:01] Rowan: Yeah. That there's a lot of people who are like, I am like uncomfortable at how much I feel called out by this, but also thank you. At the same time. So I feel like all these societal messages that we are talking about really are in fact societal messages that are crossing generational gaps. and various other demographics.[00:01:25] Lara: Yeah. It's time to talk about them more. And so that's why we're just gonna keep unboxing all these things.[00:01:32] Rowan: That was really good. That was some good marketing there. Just bringing that segue back into the name of the podcast. That's why we have you here, Ms Wellman. So yeah, so today is, this is actually not as hard for me as I think it is for a lot of people, but I'm gonna tell you a bit of a backstory to explain why so.I wasn't necessarily raised to ask for help. We're Gen X kids, the two of us, and gen X kids were largely told to fend for themselves. Like it was really that whole stereotype of you know, being kicked out in the morning, in the summer and like, go find something to do. Running around with your friends, whatever it is you're doing all day and like coming home when the street lamps come on.Like that. That was my childhood. I, I don't know about you, Lara , but[00:02:22] Lara: yeah, I mean, I think I had a little bit more of an overprotective mom, but like compared to what that means now.[00:02:28] Rowan: Like that[00:02:29] Lara: is not, that is not what that meant then[00:02:31] Rowan: like Gen X overprotective. Yeah. It's very[00:02:35] Lara: different[00:02:35] Rowan: my mom used to be like you can go to the park, but you can't go alone. You have to go with a friend. And that was weird because most of my friends would just be going to the park on the road like that. Yeah. So, yes, I'm with you on that. I did sometimes have a check-in once or twice during the day, but really I learned that if there was a problem, I.I had to deal with it on my own. That takes me to the tender age of 14, and at 14 years old, I sat down with my parents after getting into a lot of trouble, getting kicked outta school running away from home, a whole bunch you know, and just being in a really bad place. And I said, I'm having a hard time.I can't stop drinking every time I'm stressed. I drink every time. I'm sad, I drink. And I don't know what to do about it. And to make a long story short, my mom got on the phone with anybody who would listen. She called everywhere. She talked to everybody, and finally somebody said, yes, we can get your child into a rehab center.So I went to a live-in rehab center for six months. That changed my perspective on asking for help because I did ask for help. I received the help and that help ultimately saved my life. I, I learned that I didn't have to go at it alone. And even in the rest of my life where I've run into tricky situations, I've been able to tap into the resources that are available and ask for that help.But that is me and that is a rare find. I have found.[00:04:14] Lara: Yeah. I think that there are some people who never want to ask for help. There are some people who will ask for help, like around certain categories of things, but other ones they won't. Right? Like there's certain ways that we feel about what it means about us to ask for help, and I think that's why most people don't wanna ask for help.It's not 'cause they're trying to not be a burden. It's because they're worried that by asking for help. That is going to say something about who they are.[00:04:43] Rowan: My partner went on stress leave a little while ago, and I remember even in that situation her feeling worried that going on stress leave, asking her doctor for help asking for that time off from her employer would put her in a situation where she might be viewed as less trustworthy.Less reliable, right? She would be seen perhaps as a burden, and if they were to do some layoffs, she might end up at the top of the list. So what do you do when you are dealing with something...
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    40 mins
  • 5. It's All in Her Head (or is it?)

    5. It's All in Her Head (or is it?)
    Jun 3 2025

    Will you look at that? Someone likes us enough to be on our podcast!

    Unboxing It had the pleasure of welcoming its first guest to the show: Misty Pratt, health communicator and author of the book All In Her Head: How Gender Bias Harms Women’s Mental Health.

    Because if there’s one thing we know about society, it’s that women are often told to take a seat. This is also true in healthcare.

    Misty talks to Rowan and Lara about how gender bias—*cough* the patriarchy *cough*—has led to poorer health outcomes for women throughout history, and how this trend continues today. Are women being taken seriously when they visit the doctor? Are their concerns being dismissed? Is everything being blamed on hormonal shifts when there can be other underlying issues at play?

    Tune in as Misty goes through the findings she hopes will help women receive better care and yeet the patriarchy into the sea.

    Misty’s Substack

    Misty’s Website (check out her book!)



    Get full access to Unboxing It with Lara and Rowan at unboxingit.substack.com/subscribe
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    40 mins

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