Joe Hudson is an executive coach for tech CEOs like Sam Altman, and is a cofounder of the Art of Accomplishment. In this in-person interview, we sat down to talk about what I like to think of as the first principles of inner work. We explore Joe's beliefs about joy, including nuances around creating safety, his philosophy on teaching without dependency, and how relational work acts as “rocket fuel” for personal transformation. Most importantly, we discuss how the hell he has almost zero tension in his belly.

Time-stamps

00:04 Why does my wife trust Joe more after seeing how little tension he has in his belly?
00:06 How 7 years of breathwork rewired his capacity for authenticity + emotional expression
00:25 The reason self-trust + trust in life are actually the same skill
00:28 Why enjoyment is the most efficient way to work
00:38 How true safety (ironically) requires acknowledging that we're never truly safe
00:43 Why Joe rarely buys into people's stories
00:49 The common trap that stagnates the personal growth of so many teachers (and how to avoid it)
00:55 The hilarious story behind Joe's secret nickname 'Burt McCracken'
01:03 One definition of narcissism is the inability to feel emotions
01:05 The reason that relational work accelerates personal transformation (compared to solo efforts)

Learn More About Joe Hudson + AoA

👨‍🏫 Get discounted access to their courses here
🎧 Listen to the fantastic AoA Podcast (my top 10 episodes)
🎬 Watch Joe's Youtube Videos @artofaccomplishment

Explore More from Jonny

👋 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🎴 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode's show-notes + timestamps
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

Franzi is someone whose work sits at the powerful intersection of nervous system health, emotional resilience, and embodied leadership.

What I admire most about her is the way she weaves personal integrity, deep inquiry, and relational intelligence into every facet of her life — from parenting her three sons to working with founders navigating burnout and stuck emotions. We explore what it truly means to lead from a place of wholeness — and why she believes leadership should be a force for healing, not just productivity. Franzi shares how curiosity became her greatest ally through grief and trauma, and how movement became a portal into somatic healing.

We also discuss the difference between performative boundaries and boundaries that foster deeper connection, how interoception builds relational capacity, and why numbness is often the most potent entry point into this work.

Other topics we touch on include:

🌿 The cost of chronic performance zones & reclaiming peripheral vision
🧠 How somatics and neuroscience go hand-in-hand — and why embodiment is often mislabeled as “woo”
🧒 Her radical, nervous-system-based approach to parenting and education
💡 The power of practicing self-inquiry through the simple questions: Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going?
🫀 And what it means to live a life rooted in belonging, dignity, and safety

This one is rich, spacious, and full of grounded wisdom — I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Connect with Franzi

🖥️ Learn about Franzi's Work
📝 Read Franzi's Writing

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode's show-notes + timestamps
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

In this episode, I’m speaking with a friend, author, entrepreneur & prolific writer Nat Eliason.

The timing of this conversation was interesting as we recorded it shortly before the US elections, after which the crypto markets shot back into the mainstream. You’ll hear about the intense emotional rollercoaster he went through, losing millions of dollars in a very short period of time — how it felt to write about this — what he’s learned about cultivating creative endurance with his writing, as well as his perspective on relaxation versus numbing and how our relationship with work pushes us towards coping mechanisms rather than genuine rest.

Official Links

👋 Follow Nat on Twitter/X @nateliason
📚 Read Crypto Confidential
🖥️ Nat's homepage

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode's show-notes + timestamps
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

In this episode, I'm speaking with Dan Shipper — Dan is a friend, the founder of Every, and someone who I consider to be a philosopher founder.

This conversation didn’t go the direction that I thought it would, I had prepared questions exploring the future of AI and technology, but I’m glad we listened to the thread that was most alive — which ended up being exploring Dan’s personal journey with OCD ‌and recent deep dive into Jungian archetypal perspectives — and living on the borders of things — the Twilight Zone that he poetically described. Dan did manage to save me towards the end and loop the conversation back towards AI with a super interesting thesis around how it might allow us to make our intuitions more visible and reproducible in the world.

Official Links

👋 Follow Dan on Twitter
💌 Learn more about Every

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode's show-notes + timestamps
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

In this episode, I'm speaking with Marc Champagne — who after building a journaling app that reached nearly 90 million users and then having to shut it down, emerged with profound insights about the power of transformative questions and the Socratic Method.

In this conversation, we explored:

❓ What it means to ask better quality questions, some of the specific questions that have altered the trajectory of Marc’s life — like “How can I be the most curious person in the room?” or “Whom haven't I thanked lately?”

🧠 And how his research led him to explore practices of Mental Fitness, with many practical experiments that you can run in your own life

I hope you find this conversation as fascinating as I did, and if these ideas resonate, please share them with others who might benefit from learning how to ask better questions of themselves and life.

Official Links

👋 Follow Marc on Instagram
🙏 Learn more about Marc's offerings here
📚 Get yourself a physical copy of Personal Socrates
🎙️ Listen to Marc's Podcast Behind the Human

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode's show-notes + timestamps
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

In this episode, I'm speaking with Tom Morgan — who after 15 years on Wall Street and experiencing what he describes as a "hellish midlife transition" (which is putting it mildly) has emerged with profound insights about human development and — especially relevant for this podcast – the nature of curiosity itself.

In this conversation, we explored:

🧠 How we might navigate the delicate balance between intellectual understanding and embodied wisdom, especially for high-achieving individuals seeking deeper meaning in their lives

🏔️ An insight about what he calls "intellectual recapture" — which is the tendency, especially among highly educated or successful people, to turn spiritual or embodied practices into yet another achievement to conquer.

⚡ Practical insights about designing personal experiments and the importance of what he calls "minimum viable woo" — finding ways to engage with transformative practices that don't require abandoning our critical thinking.

Official Links

👋 Follow Tom on Twitter/X @tomowenmorgan
📝 Read Tom's Writing at The Leading Edge
✏️ Apply to join the Leading Edge Community

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode show-notes + timestamps
📹 Want to create a Hollywood-quality home studio? Get in touch with Kevin Shen here & save $500 with code JONNYSENT500OFF
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

I’m speaking with theoretical neuroscientist Michael Edward Johnson — who, after spending seven years researching consciousness and writing the book Principia Qualia, has developed a revolutionary theory that could fundamentally change how we understand trauma, meditation, and human wellbeing.

Mike’s theory of ‘latches’ — what he calls vasocumputation — may provide a testable and concrete biological mechanism for how trauma gets stored in the body, and how to release it effectively.

This sounds nerdy and abstract, but it’s my belief that if his claims can be tested and validated — it would revolutionize the medical system and allow somatic modalities or MDMA-assisted therapy to be compared and tested side-by-side in their efficacy and we could harness the scientific method for ways to release trauma.

Official Links

👋 Follow Michael on Twitter/X @johnsonmxe
📝 Read Michael's Research + Writing on opentheory.net
✏️ Michael's deep dive twitter thread on Vasocomputation

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode show-notes + timestamps
📹 Want to create a Hollywood-quality home studio? Get in touch with Kevin Shen here & save $500 with code JONNYSENT500OFF
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.

I’ve been following River’s substack essays for a few years now and I feel a real kinship with his irreverent and genuinely unique perspectives — as well as his talent for self-experimentation and weaving together esoteric yet incredibly practical concepts which he uses for self-exploration.

In this conversation, you can expect to learn:

💬 How River was able to use somatic-based practices to go from experiencing an incessant inner-critic and suicidal ideation, to almost no inner-dialogue and opening up access to his emotions.

🧠 We explore the dynamic between what he calls Systems Mode that dominates our culture vs. a more Spontaneous Mode of being.

💀 We both riff on how the ideas of Bill Plotkin are essential for these times, and what it means to ‘die well’ in order to become genuine adults and experience a sense of aliveness.

Official Links

👋 Follow River on Twitter/X
📝 Read River's substack essays
👨‍🎓 Check out River'sexcellent course Somatic Resonance

Connect + Explore More from Jonny

🐦 Follow on Twitter/X @jonnym1ller
🫁 Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
🪷 Order our deck of Calm Cards (these make great gifts)
📱 Check out Stateshift — our brand new iOS + Android app
📝 Take the Nervous System Quotient (NSQ) Self-Assessment (totally free)

🫁 Episode Sponsor — Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our 8th cohort will run in Fall 2025 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about creating the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols.

Previous students have shared how partaking improved their sleep and quality of relationships and tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 1000 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth — so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com

Further Ways to Support the Podcast:

🎙️ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
🎧 I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
😎 RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers – I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
🤖 I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode show-notes + timestamps
📹 Want to create a Hollywood-quality home studio? Get in touch with Kevin Shen here & save $500 with code JONNYSENT500OFF
📝 Test out my favourite journaling app using journal prompts that have made a huge impact in my life.