Ray and Jim are joined by Brent Sadler, author of "U.S. Naval Power in the 21st Century", to talk about China's rapidly growing naval power, including its ability to exercise power globally, coerce other countries and undermine Western influence. They discuss whether China's numerical superiority equates to superior capability and the growing vulnerability of surface vessels. They examine the situation in the South China Sea and examine how counterinsurgency tactics may be necessary to deal with China's paramilitary coast guard and maritime militia. The conversation then moves on to the US presence in the region and the need to develop maritime statecraft. They discuss the severe challenges facing US shipbuilding, including the lack of public shipyards and the shortage of shipyard workers and naval architects. The conversation concludes with the potential of the AUKUS alliance and the importance of Australia's investment in naval shipbuilding.

At the end, Ray and Jim introduce their new "There I was..." segment, in which they trade stories from their military and foreign service careers. Ray goes first by sharing his first crisis after arriving in Australia, when he realized he had no idea how to get the Secretary of Defense on the phone.