Before his dark night began, Bart was a highly intellectual physician with no interest whatsoever in spirituality. He had, as he says, “worked for a long time cutting off bodily feelings.” Then an injury ended his ability to function, leaving him depressed and unable to work. When he saw an eight-foot angel fish at the end of his bed, and began to dream vividly, he was prompted to venture into the imaginal and somatic realms. Since then, he has explored his inner terrain in a variety of ways including dream work, embodied inquiry, spiritual teachings, and plant medicines.

Amongst other things, Bart and I talk about his identification with Iron Man, and how he shut out joy as well as pain as a little child; the ways in which insights and realisations came for him during dreams; and how his approach to his medical practice developed as his explorations continued. We also touch into how he slowly opened his heart chakra; the way that psychological pain can sometimes “feed” physical pain; and how working with bodily sensations helped in the unravelling of knots. And finally, Bart shares how, after a revelation or opening, we often also experience some kind of backlash or push back.

Dr Bart Balint is a retired anesthesiologist and the author of The Giant Clam and Other Visions: An Allopathic Physician Explores Non-Ordinary States and Reconciles with Joy. Over a number of years, he has experienced a profound shift in perspective from the guilt-ridden religious beliefs that previously ruled his life to a paradigm of exploration, play, and insight. He lives with his life partner, Melanie Balint Gray, and they continue to journey together.

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She meets with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

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Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

The dark night “pulled” at Melanie in her twenties, but it wasn’t until her forties that she was willing and able to hear its calling. As her work and marriage fell apart, she found herself in a dark, heavy place, and “went down into a different space of me.” Having always been a “good little girl” who walked on eggshells and did her best to please everyone, she began to encounter everything that lay beneath her persona. Like an archaeologist, she painstakingly worked through many layers of self-hatred and shame.

Amongst many other things, Melanie and I talk about finally being able to say no, and refusing to pass the dysfunctional buck onto the next generation; the crumbling of the old ways and what happens when our operating systems stop working; and refusing to pretend. We also discuss the humaneness of including all of ourselves; cracking our hearts open and touching into the breathtaking, heartbreaking beauty of life; and learning how to trust ourselves whilst also leaning on others. Finally, we touch into the sanity that emerges out of the dark night process and how, even though at times it feels like madness, “you might actually be finding your sanity.”

Melanie Balint Gray PhD

Some influential moments:

1. Living abroad for ten years as a child honed adaptability, tolerance, empathy, and compassion.

2. Steeping in familial secrets honed shame, guilt, self-hatred, and victimhood.

3. A PhD in Immunology expanded critical thinking.

4. Raising children brought meditation, the super-sensible, and a new view of humanness.

5. Facing divorce, job loss, and depression peeled away worn out beliefs.

6. Now I sit with others while they see what wants to be met and/or fall away.

Melanie can be reached via email: graymelanie111@gmail.com

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She meets with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share.

You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email: darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

Kristy’s first dark night experience began when her dog – her attachment figure – died when she was ten, and she lost her trust in life. Over the next twenty years, things seemed to improve; she left home, learnt how to meditate, began training as a counsellor, and started to explore her childhood trauma. During a somatic experiencing session, she had a profound recognition, which at the time seemed little more than a subtle “click”. The ensuing sense of grace and effortlessness – very different from her usually tumultuous inner world – lasted for a couple of weeks. After that, it was as if a threshold had been crossed; the process of unravelling both an entire lifetime’s and many generations of tension began.

We discuss – amongst many other things – the nature of the twisted double-stranded rope; how evolution is bringing us back into our natural state and undoing the effects of thousands of years of empire; and the importance of being in the presence of nature. We also talk about the space of love and unconditionality that starts to slowly move to the foreground, and how something profound, beautiful, and mind-blowing begins to emerge on the other side of the dark night.

Kristy Johnsson began her career as an environmental researcher, before doing an MSc in Clinical Counselling. Working with a somatic-ecotherapeutic approach that honours the intelligence of nature, she has undertaken her own deep psychosomatic explorations, as well as walking alongside many others (sometimes literally) in theirs. She has years of experience of environmental and outdoor education rooted in social justice, and is currently travelling in Australasia, while connecting ever more deeply with the more-than-human world.

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She works one to one with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

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You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email: darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

Following on from our previous conversation, Tim and I touch on the profound mattering of every life, even in the face of futility and nihilism. We discuss the reckoning with mortality that occurs in the dark night, and he proposes that, rather than fixed objects, we are dynamic processes in time, and thus the possibility of radical newness is inherent with us.

Tim shares his philosophy of death, which is informed by his experiences of being with dying people, and by extensive research on NDEs (Near Death Experiences) and terminal lucidity. He suggests that, while the biological dies, the psyche continues on and enters into “the ecology of soul” before (at some point) re-combining with the biological. We mention the physicalist view that consciousness originates in the brain; the notion of pastivity as an organisational system; and the way in which “the ability of the psyche to survive the death of the body has evolved.” We also talk about the importance of cultivating what Tim calls psy-sensing – the sensing of the phenomena of the psyche, including thoughts, memories, dreams, spiritual experiences, and the imaginal realm – and how all of this is just the beginnings of an understanding.

Tim Freke has written many books on religion, mysticism, and spirituality, one of which – The Jesus Mysteries, co-authored with Peter Gandy – became a bestseller. In 2017, he wrote Soul Story: Evolution and the Self-Realising Universe, which offers a new narrative connecting spirituality and science. Tim also leads experiential retreats, both in person and online, in which participants experience the “Big Love” of deep communion. His new podbook, Why Your Life Really Matters, explores his latest philosophy in detail.

Connect with Tim

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She meets with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share.

You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email: darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

Tim began asking questions about the nature of life, death, suffering, and the world from an early age, and has never stopped. His first transformative awakening experience happened when he was twelve, and he became a philosopher, spending decades studying, writing, speaking, and leading experiential retreats. Over the last few years, he’s had a radical change of mind and is now in the process of laying out his new philosophy on the evolutionary nature of existence – and much else besides – in his podbook, Why Your Life Really Matters.

In this conversation, Tim and I tentatively begin to create a philosophical scaffolding for the dark night of the soul. We discuss – amongst many other things – Tim’s concept of “pastivity” and how the past is implicit in both the present and ourselves; being stunned by our own foolishness; and the importance of asking deep questions and cultivating an “open system”. We also talk about how everything is one process of evolutionary emergence, including the self; the nature of the big loving intelligence in which suffering is redeemed; the redemptive nature of the dark night and the bittersweetness of life; and how it is to be a lover of the fullness of existence.

Tim Freke has written many books on religion, mysticism, and spirituality, one of which – The Jesus Mysteries, co-authored with Peter Gandy – became a bestseller. In 2017, Tim wrote Soul Story: Evolution and the Self-Realising Universe, which offers a new narrative connecting spirituality and science. Tim also leads experiential retreats, both in person and online, in which participants experience the “Big Love” of deep communion. His new podbook, Why Your Life Really Matters, explores his latest philosophy in detail.

Connect with Tim

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She meets with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share.

You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email: darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

Following on from our first conversation, Jen and I explore how culture skews us towards pathologically trying to fix ourselves, and the sighs of relief that come when we put down the glaring searchlights; coming into and tending to our inner houses with care and gentleness even amidst collapse, dismantling, mess, renovation, reconstruction, and expansion; the importance of “trusting the alchemy of your own house” such that it becomes a safe and unconditionally loving place to be; and the usefulness of understanding the dark night as a non-linear process of alchemical transformation.

In addition, we talk about Jen’s experience of chronic pain, and how being in a broken body – her spine held together with hardware – is a spiritual threshold, a portal into her inner world; how the forced descent into broken-bodiedness has been an initiation into a different kind of presence; and how the realities of physical pain and disabilities are often overlooked (or worse) in spiritual teachings and communities. We also touch into destruction in the service of creation; the “particular signature scent of healing and unfolding” that every human being has; and the pain, awe, and wonder of being in the space of “even this.”

Jen Peer Rich, PhD is an author, artist, and alchemist whose work explores healing, multiplicity, and the spiritual architecture of selves. Her debut memoir, The Alchemy of Being a House: A Memoir About The Body That Broke, The Voice That Barked, and The Home That Became Us, is the first in a series of intimate, genre-defying books tracing the nonlinear path of trauma integration and homecoming. With a background in ecological philosophy and decades of lived experience as a disabled, queer caregiver, Jen brings a rare blend of insight, humor, and radical compassion to her storytelling.

Connect with Jen

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She works one to one with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

Mentions

We refer to the seven stages of spiritual alchemy, which are: calcination (burning), dissolution, separation, conjunction, fermentation, distillation, and coagulation.

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Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

Jen’s dark night began in 2011, when she found herself “smack dab in the face of true love with a huge bag of unresolved trauma.” A lifetime of internal suffering culminated in collapse; for months, she lay among the trees in her backyard, and started to tend to the wounding that had begun when she was treated for cancer as a baby, and kept snowballing throughout her traumatic childhood. In the fourteen years since, her quest to understand what happened that summer has taken her into both academia (in the form of a PhD) and profound creativity as a writer and artist.

Amongst many other things, we talk about the single self assumption that is baked into our world view when the reality is a multiplicity of teeming selves; and how she came to recognise the true nature of the protective part that was borne out of her intense pain as an infant. We also discuss coming into relationship with our parts entirely on their own terms and how things change when we stop pathologising them; and the intelligence of the healing process and how we began to follow it even when it took us to weird places.

Jen Peer Rich, PhD is an author, artist, and alchemist whose work explores healing, multiplicity, and the spiritual architecture of selves. Her debut memoir, The Alchemy of Being a House: A Memoir About The Body That Broke, The Voice That Barked, and The Home That Became Us, is the first in a series of intimate, genre-defying books tracing the nonlinear path of trauma integration and homecoming. With a background in ecological philosophy and decades of lived experience as a disabled, queer caregiver, Jen brings a rare blend of insight, humor, and radical compassion to her storytelling.

Connect with Jen

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She works one to one with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

Mentions

Jen mentions Your Symphony of Selves: Discover and Understand More of Who We Are by James Fadiman, PhD and Jason Gruber, JD.

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You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email: darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit

After fifteen years of disciplined meditation and spiritual seeking, Paul hit a brick wall. He got ME/CFS, lost his job, his ideas about spirituality crumbled, and he lost interest in all the teachings he had tried so assiduously to follow. With no role in life, and no sense of direction, he felt like he was falling into a bottomless pit. Occasionally, a deeper sense of peace came out of nowhere, but he doubted himself, calling himself crazy. Eventually, after several years, he found himself ready to have a role in the world again.

Amongst other things, Paul and I talk about the impossibility of “achieving” surrender; putting on a brave face and trying not to feel our feelings; the myth of enlightenment; and how therapeutic and spiritual interventions frequently feel like coercion or violation during the dark night. We also discuss drinking the "meditation Kool-Aid", and the blind alley of trying to be a detached witness to our experience. We run with Paul’s metaphor of Sisyphus endlessly rolling the boulder up the hill; we ponder what we’d say to our younger selves; we wonder at how the dark night stretched our capacity to be with ourselves; and we mull over the paradox of being grateful for having suffered.

Paul Currie worked as an actor as a young adult, before eventually becoming disillusioned and unfulfilled by performance and deciding to embark on a spiritual search. In his mid thirties he experienced a dark night of the soul process during which everything seemed to fall apart, especially all of his notions of becoming a spiritual person or an enlightened person. Following this experience he trained as a counsellor and psychotherapist and now dedicates his time to being with people experiencing challenging and difficult states.

Connect with Paul

Fiona Robertson is the author of The Dark Night of the Soul: A Journey from Absence to Presence, and Eve Was a Realist: Poems for the Untamed Heart. She works one to one with people who are going through a dark night or spiritual emergency, accompanying them in this challenging terrain as they rediscover and deepen into their real selves. She also offers a monthly dark night gathering group, and occasional workshops and a reflective space for therapists and counsellors.

Connect with Fiona

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share.

You’re welcome to contact The Dark Night of the Soul Unwrapped via email. darknightunwrapped@gmail.com

Music by James Waring / Design by Adam McKillop / Artwork by Stefan Armoneit