Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-hugo-m-d

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Hugo Millington Drake, Founder of Trigify, to unpack the real journey of building a SaaS company in today’s crowded GTM landscape. Hugo shares how Trigify evolved from an accidental automation agency into a social intent platform, why interest-based signals outperform traditional triggers, and the hidden challenges of selling software to cost-sensitive agencies. The conversation dives deep into PLG vs. sales-led growth, churn, pricing pressure, LinkedIn outbound, the rise of GTM engineers, and why most founders underestimate how hard software really is.

What you’ll learn:

• How Trigify pivoted from an agency into a SaaS product
• Why social engagement data beats traditional trigger-based signals
• The real differences between selling services vs. selling software
• Why PLG is harder than it looks in complex GTM tools
• The challenges of churn when selling to agencies
• LinkedIn outbound vs. cold email at scale
• Influencers, micro-creators, and early SaaS distribution strategies
• The truth about “GTM engineers” and no-code/AI hype
• Why founder stress is often self-inflicted and how to manage it

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:48] What Trigify does and how it evolved

[00:04:43] Interest-based targeting vs. traditional triggers

[00:07:27] From automation agency to SaaS, selling $149 software vs. $3k retainers

[00:18:41] Churn, pricing pressure, and agency customers

[00:27:17] PLG, onboarding, and customer confusion

[00:40:00] GTM engineers, Clay, and AI tool hype

[00:54:13] LinkedIn outbound, fake accounts, and scale limits

[01:11:10] Founder stress, perspective, and long-term thinking

Featured Guest:

Hugo Millington Drake – Founder, Trigify

Host:

Ben Reed, Host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Connect with Hugo:

Website: https://www.trigify.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugomdrake/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Love this episode? Subscribe to the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast for expert insights on B2B sales, GTM strategy, RevOps, and SaaS leadership. If you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review.

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community: https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-hugo-m-d

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-thibault-garcia

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Thibault Garcia, founder of Reachly, to explore what it really takes to build a successful lead generation agency without chasing trends or hype. Thibault shares his journey from growing up in France to building a global agency from Thailand, starting on Fiverr while working a full-time corporate job, and eventually scaling, acquiring another agency, and serving clients across APAC, the UK, and the US. The conversation dives into consistency vs. trend hopping, the reality behind overnight success, agency fulfillment challenges, and why long-term thinking always wins.

What you’ll learn:

• Why trend hopping into AI and automation often leads to failure
• How Thibault validated his agency idea on Fiverr before quitting his job
• The difference between selling leads and actually delivering results
• Why most agencies struggle after 5–8 clients and how to avoid the yo-yo effect
• Horizontal vs. vertical agency models and when each makes sense
• How podcasts and long-form content build trust before the sales call
• Why patience, repetition, and discipline matter more than speed

Featured Guest:

Thibault Garcia, Founder, Reachly

Host:

Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

[00:05:00] Building a business outside the US

[00:08:50] Starting a side business on Fiverr while working full-time

[00:12:00] Why trend hopping is a trap

[00:14:04] Knowing when to persist vs. when to pivot

[00:24:35] Acquiring another lead gen agency

[00:30:00] Scaling agencies and the fulfillment bottleneck

[00:43:12] Horizontal vs. vertical agency strategies

[00:56:26] Clay, GTM engineers, and the future of AI in outbound

[01:10:44] The long-term mindset every founder needs

Connect with Thibault:

Website: https://www.reachly.co/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thibault-garcia/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Love this episode? Subscribe to the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast for expert insights on B2B sales, RevOps, and leadership. If you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review.

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community: https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-thibault-garcia

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-ramsey-alramahi

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leader Podcast, Ben Reed talks with Ramsey Al Ramahi, Founder of Rev Reply, about the real, unglamorous truth of building a SaaS company in today’s GTM world. They explore why lead gen agencies make demanding but powerful early customers, how post-response management and speed-to-lead drive revenue, and why founders must learn to filter feedback without losing focus. The conversation covers product management, founder-led sales, values-driven hiring, and why a little “craziness” is often a competitive advantage for modern builders.

Featured Guest: Ramsey Al Ramahi, Founder of RevReply

Host: Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

What You’ll Learn:

• Why post-response workflow is the new outbound edge.
• How lead gen agencies sharpen early SaaS products.
• Filtering feature requests without derailing your roadmap.
• Founder-led sales principles that actually scale.
• Using “taste” and judgment in product decisions.
• How core values quietly shape every GTM move.
• Why a little strategic craziness becomes an advantage.

Connect with Ramsey:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramseyaalramahi/

Website: https://www.revreply.com

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community: https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-ramsey-alramahi

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-kellen-casebeer

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Kellen Casebeer, founder of The Deal Lab and the community formerly known as Clay Cafe, now rebranding to GTM Cafe. Kellen shares how the community grew organically to over 1,300 highly engaged members, why the rebrand was a natural evolution, and what it reveals about where modern go-to-market teams are headed. The conversation explores community-led growth, the expanding definition of GTM, and why elite revenue execution can’t be reduced to a single tool.

What you’ll learn:

• How Clay Cafe grew organically into a 1,300+ member GTM community
• Why the shift from Clay Cafe to GTM Cafe was inevitable
• What actually drives engagement and consistency in professional communities
• How sales, GTM engineering, agencies, and operators are converging
• Why great GTM goes far beyond any single tool or tactic
• The importance of facilitation over promotion in community building

Featured Guest:

Kellen Casebeer, Founder, The Deal Lab & GTM Cafe

Host:

Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:54] The origin story: why Kellen created Clay Cafe after going solo

[00:02:05] Early growth moments and the “we hit 40 members” realization

[00:03:11] The Venn diagram problem: Clay vs elite GTM

[00:13:39] GTM engineers vs SDR economics

[00:16:35] The core value shift: button pushers vs thinkers

[00:21:25] Why most people won’t survive the shift

[00:27:28] Why premium pricing requires making things look hard

[00:29:35] The Porsche analogy: why restraint and simplicity signal real power

[00:46:19] Taste and discernment as the real GTM skill

[01:36:30] Why discernment outlives every tool and trend

[01:36:30] The final takeaway: give away what you want to receive

Connect with Kellen:

GTM Cafe: https://gtmcafe.com

The Deal Lab: https://www.thedeallab.io

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellen-casebeer/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community:

https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-kellen-casebeer

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-frank-sondors

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leader Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Frank Sondors, Founder & CEO of Salesforge, to unpack how he scaled a multi-product AI sales platform to $3M ARR in 12 months, fully bootstrapped. Frank shares how he validated the idea through 40 customer interviews, closed four paying customers before writing code, and built seven products using a “compound software” approach. They dive into AI-native engineering, rapid feature velocity, the real challenges of remote hiring, and why hybrid human + AI workflows will shape the future of sales. This episode is a tactical blueprint for founders and GTM leaders building fast in competitive markets.

What You’ll Learn:

• How Frank went from leading 50 reps to launching Salesforge
• Why domain expertise gives founders a 10x advantage
• The landing-page strategy that closed four customers pre-product
• How Salesforge hit $1M ARR with no employees or agencies
• Why the “compound model” accelerates multi-product growth
• How AI-native engineers dramatically improve product velocity
• How Frank evaluates performance, competence, commitment, and culture
• The real challenges of remote hiring and how to filter high-integrity talent
• Why hybrid human + AI agent workflows will dominate sales

Featured Guest:

Frank Sondors, Founder & CEO, Salesforge

Host: Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:43] Frank’s path from Google → SaaS → leading a 50-rep sales org

[00:02:09] Why SalesForge exists and why Frank built software to replace headcount

[00:09:40] Landing page → $0 to first 4 customers before writing code

[00:10:22] The first SalesForge product: sequencer + 20-language unique email engine

[00:13:37] Engineers with quotas → How SalesForge ships fast

[00:31:27] Why customers switch: cost, results, and “legacy tools stopped working” [00:53:21] How expansion works: 7 products → consultative, not pitch-driven sales

[01:14:27] Frank’s hiring philosophy: competence, commitment, culture

[01:34:12] AI-native employees outperform and how SalesForge screens for them

Connect with Frank:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/franksondors/

Website: https://salesforge.ai

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community:

https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-frank-sondors

Sign up for Perspective and build your mobile-first funnels today: https://try.perspective.co/ft4yakv4x81o

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-mr-niels

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leader Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Niels Klement, CMO of Perspective, to unpack how their mobile-first funnel builder scaled to $10M ARR bootstrapped in just four years. Niels breaks down how a single webinar funnel saved the business, why SaaS cashflow is uniquely challenging, and how discovering a “beachhead” use case in the German market ignited early adoption. They go deep into paid acquisition for SaaS, the creative engine behind Perspective’s ads, how Niels writes scripts that convert, and why most founders waste years focusing on the wrong problems. This conversation is a masterclass in growth, positioning, and creative strategy.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why SaaS cashflow struggles make annual conversions a necessity
• How Perspective identified its German recruiting “beachhead” to scale
• The webinar funnel strategy that unlocked profitable paid acquisition
• How to build a creative engine: concepts, hooks, scripts, and iterations
• Why message-market resonance beats any copywriting framework
• How to identify the biggest constraint in GTM and allocate resources
• Why USPs evolve as the product evolves & how Perspective stacks them

Featured Guest: Niels Klement, CMO, Perspective

Host: Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

• [00:00:53] From agency to $10M ARR SaaS in four years.
• [02:41:50] Webinar funnel solving SaaS cashflow paid ads constraints
• [14:42:00] Riding recruiting-funnel trend to win the German-speaking lead gen market.
• [19:16:00] Mobile-first, interactive funnels born from real client performance pain.
• [39:34:00] Inside Perspective’s performance marketing engine and creative testing system.
• [56:22:00] Copy, customer context, objections and scripts over fancy tactics.
• [01:07:20] Niels’ final message: “The only thing that matters is enjoying life.”

Connect with Niels:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nielsklement/

Website: https://www.perspective.co/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community:

https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-mr-niels

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-richard-f-p

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leader Podcast, Ben Reed speaks with Richard Purcell, founder of Moxie GTM, about his bold claim that GTM engineers will become obsolete before SDRs. Richard breaks down why today’s GTM tech stack is over-engineered, how AI is accelerating consolidation, and why data quality, creativity, and human enablement matter more than complex workflows. They dive into the limits of AI, the future of CRMs, and why perfect leads still fail without strong processes and real human judgment.

What you’ll learn:

• Why GTM engineers may disappear before SDRs
• How AI + consolidated data infrastructure are reshaping GTM
• The real reason GTM tools create complexity instead of solving it
• Why clean data + messaging > prompts + automation
• The future of CRMs and “conversation with your data” UX
• How human creativity and enablement remain irreplaceable

Featured Guest: Richard Purcell, Founder, Moxie GTM

Host: Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:09] Thesis drop: “GTM engineers will die before SDRs.”

[00:04:39] What is a GTM engineer? role & responsibilities defined.

[00:11:12] CRM debate: what belongs in CRM vs prospecting tools.

[00:12:07] Consolidation: single API + Claude demo cuts setup time.

[00:41:32] Bootstrapped vs VC growth, churn and sustainability tradeoffs.

[00:46:46] AI future: agents, buyer/seller AIs, and systemic risks.

[00:58:07] SDRs: Human nuance still beats raw automation, real examples.

Connect with Richard:

Website: moxiegtm.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardfpurcell/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community: https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sales/about?ref=07a56393b2d2435d9366f2e6151e2600

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-richard-f-p

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-brandoncharleson

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Next Gen Sales Leader Podcast, Ben Reed sits down with Brandon Charleson, founder of Top of Funnel, certified Clay & Instantly expert, U.S. Air Force veteran, and GTM systems builder. Brandon shares his path from tinkering with TI-calculator apps and running Kickstarter campaigns to becoming a recruitment leader, data engineer, and AI-powered GTM operator. The conversation blends tactical GTM execution (Clay, scraping, APIs, automation) with the human side of leadership, prioritization, communication, mental energy, and avoiding burnout.

What you’ll learn:

• How Brandon evolved from tinkerer to GTM engineer using APIs, scraping, and automation
• Why “people + systems” is the essential framework for scaling
• Practical Clay/no-code data acquisition and enrichment tactics
• How to manage “brain cycles” and make better founder decisions
• Communication skills: silence, deep lexicon, and micro open-loops
• The PPTP method (Puppy → Process → Training → People) for building scalable workflows
• Where AI helps today and why it fails without clean data

Featured Guest: Brandon Charleson, Founder, Top of Funnel

Host: Ben Reed, host of the Next Gen Sales Leaders Podcast

Episode Highlights:

• 00:26 - Brandon’s Background: Tech, Film, Recruiting & Air Force
• 03:43 - “People + Systems”: How Brandon Diagnoses Problems
• 15:29 - Communication Psychology & Sales
• 18:45 - Brain Cycles, Prioritization & Founder Decision-Making
• 31:12 - Fitness, Sleep, Circadian Rhythm & Peak Performance
• 46:40 - AI Prompting, Context Engineering, LLMs
• 57:22 - Schema Design, Data Meaning & GTM Architecture
• 59:02 - Final Advice: Tell People You Care About Them Daily

Connect with Brandon:

Website: https://www.topoffunnel.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-charleson/

Follow Ben on Social:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-aaron-reed/

Join our B2B GTM & RevOps Entrepreneur Community:

https://www.skool.com/outbound-b2b-sa...

Sponsored By RevyOps (The #1 GTM Data Management Platform): https://tinyurl.com/revyops-brandoncharleson