This week Eric & Cobus sit down with Wu Peng, the director-general of the department of African affairs in the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, for his perspective on a wide range of issues that are impacting relations between the two regions.

The conversation also features questions from a trio of experts in China-Africa relations including:

• Gyude Moore, a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development (@gyude_moore)
• Zainab Usman, director of the Africa program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (@MissZeeUsman)
• Aggrey Mutambo, senior diplomatic affairs writer for the Daily Nation and The East African newspaper (@agmutambo)

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Since its inception in 2013, Chinese government officials have insisted that the Belt and Road is solely an economic initiative and does not have any military motivations. But the BRI's civil-military distinction is no longer as clear cut as it used to be. President Xi Jinping himself called for a strong BRI security system to protect China's overseas interests, people and property.

One little-known aspect of the BRI is that much of the overseas construction, particularly ports, must conform to standards that conform to the People's Liberation Army's requirements. So, while today there's little evidence that China is leveraging the BRI for security or military purposes, there are concerns that it is positioning to be able to do so in the future should the need arise.

Daniel Russel, vice president for international security and diplomacy at the New York-based Asia Society Policy Institute, examined the security dimensions of the BRI in a recent paper. Daniel joins Eric & Cobus to discuss what he calls the Belt and Road's "civil-military fusion" in maritime, terrestrial and space environments.

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Chinese overseas development finance is unrecognizable from what it was just a few years ago. After suffering tens of billions of dollars in losses, Chinese lenders have moved to de-risk their lending to countries in Africa, Asia, and across the Global South. Instead of those once massive bilateral loans from the two main policy banks in Beijing, Chinese lending now encompasses a much more diverse array of actors, particularly in Africa.

This new approach was on full display last month when Kenya closed a deal with a consortium of Chinese stakeholders to finance the extension of the Standard Gauge Railway from the current terminus in the Rift Valley to the Ugandan border. A third of the cost to build the new railway will be paid for by the Kenyan government, around another third will be comprised of a consortium of Chinese investors, and the rest will be financed with loans from the China Exim Bank.

Yunan Chen, a research fellow at ODI Global in London, and Teal Emery, an adjunct lecturer at Johns Hopkins SAIS in Washington, D.C., join Eric & Cobus to discuss their new report, which breaks down the latest trends in Chinese development finance, and to explain why the deal in Kenya should serve as a case study for other African borrowers.

Show Notes:

• ODI Global: Greener on the other side? — Mapping China’s overseas co-financing and financial innovation by Yunnan Chen and Teal Emery
• ODI Global: China’s creditor diversification in Africa: impacts and challenges of infrastructure debt-financing by Chinese commercial creditors by Yunnan Chen and Tianyi Wu
• South China Morning Post: After delay, new Chinese funding plan will help extend railway to Uganda, Kenya says by Jevans Nyabiage

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Kenyan President William Ruto wrapped up a four-day visit to China on Friday and returned home with a massive new railway deal and more than a billion dollars of investment pledges. Ruto's successful closing of the Phase III extension of the Standard Gauge Railway to the Ugandan border comes after nearly a decade of Kenyan lobbying in China.

Also, this week, Eric & Géraud are at the Salzburg Global Forum in Austria, where they joined a diverse group of civil society stakeholders from across Africa to participate in a lively week-long conference on centering an African vision for a new multilateral future.

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In February, a tailings dam at a Chinese-owned mine in Zambia collapsed, releasing 50 million liters of acid waste into the Kafue River—a critical water source for millions. The spill sparked national outrage and raised urgent questions about environmental oversight, China’s expanding role in Africa’s mining sector, and Zambia’s ability to safeguard its natural resources.

Freeman Chiwele Mubanga, head of research at the Centre for Environmental Justice in Lusaka is part of a growing civil society movement demanding accountability from both the Chinese mining company and the Zambian government. Freeman speaks with Géraud and CGSP’s new Transitional Minerals Editor, Obert Bore, about the fallout from the disaster and what it reveals about the environmental track record of Chinese mining operations across the continent.

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Donald Trump strongly feels that U.S. security alliances in Europe no longer serve Washington's long-term interest. In his view, the U.S. is being "ripped off" by wealthy countries that can afford to pay for their protection but choose to rely on the United States instead. He also says much the same thing about the U.S. military presence in Japan and South Korea.

Curiously, though, the Philippines is different. U.S. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth recently visited Manila and reaffirmed Washigton's "ironclad" commitment to protect the Southeast Asian country against "China's aggression."

Ray Powell, director of the Sealight initiative at Stanford University's Gordian Knott Center for National Security Innovation and host of the "Why Should We Care About the Indo-Pacific Podcast," joins Eric and CGSP Southeast Asia Editor Edwin Shri Bimo to discuss why the national security team in Washington remains appears to be more committed to the Philippines than other alliance partners.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the CGSP website)

Show Notes:

• Apple Podcasts: Why Should We Care About the Indo-Pacific? hosted by Ray Powell and Jim Caruso
• 60 Minutes: China rams Philippine ship while 60 Minutes on board; South China Sea tensions could draw U.S. in

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Kenyan President William Ruto is scheduled to travel to Beijing later this month for an official state visit, where he's widely expected to finalize a long-awaited deal to extend the Chinese-built Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) to the Ugandan border. But the key question remains: will China agree to fund the 475-kilometer extension?

Eric and Géraud also explore why a Chinese mining company continues to produce large volumes of cobalt in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, despite a government ban on exports of the valuable blue metal.

Plus, they unpack the latest testimony from General Michael Langley, the top U.S. military commander for Africa, and what his comments reveal about Washington’s current outlook on China-Africa relations.

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With new tariff threats from the Trump administration and rising tensions across key markets, companies and governments alike are scrambling to understand what decoupling—or de-risking—actually looks like in practice. From electronics and apparel to solar panels and electric vehicles, China’s role in global production remains formidable. But is it unshakeable?

In this special bonus episode, Eric is joined by Agatha Kratz, Juliana Bouchot, and Lauren Piper from the Rhodium Group, whose recent report "China and the Future of Global Supply Chains" offers one of the clearest pictures yet of what’s happening on the ground.

Together, they explore whether Southeast Asia, India, or Latin America can meaningfully absorb China’s manufacturing output—and what the U.S. strategy of sweeping tariffs might mean for inflation, consumers, and the Global South.

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