In this episode of PCC Local Time, produced in collaboration with the Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management (APMM), host Nancy Hess explores the evolving relationship between universities and their surrounding communities — the so-called “Town Gown” connection.

Our guests — borough managers from three Pennsylvania university towns — reflect on how they navigate both the tension and potential that arise when generations, lifestyles, and values intersect.

From housing and community safety to student engagement and communication, they share real-world stories about how small towns are cultivating vibrant, intergenerational communities where students, residents, and local leaders learn to see each other as partners.

Nicole Sipos — Borough Manager, Indiana Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Indiana University of Pennsylvania)

• A proud graduate of Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), she holds a degree in Business and has dedicated over two decades to public service within her hometown. Nichole was appointed Borough Manager in January 2023. She oversees a $12 million annual budget and leads strategic initiatives to support community development, infrastructure, and intergovernmental collaboration.
• A lifelong resident of Indiana Borough and a strong advocate for the region, Nichole’s deep ties to both the community and IUP have been instrumental in fostering strong partnerships and transparent communication. One of her most notable recent accomplishments includes managing a $4.1 million renovation of the Borough’s Municipal Building.

Rebecca DeSantis Randall — Borough Manager, Millersville Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Millersville University)

• Rebecca graduated from Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, earning a bachelor’s degree in international studies. She went on to receive her Master of Public Administration (MPA) degree from American University in Washington DC. She began her public service career with the International City/County Management Association (ICMA) on both the communications team and then on the career and equity advancement team as a program manager. Following ICMA, Rebecca transitioned to the City of Frederick, Maryland to serve as the City’s first Manager of Equity and Inclusion and a member of the Mayor’s Executive Leadership Team. Currently, Rebecca serves at the Borough Manager in Millersville Borough, PA, managing a community of 8,000 residents.

Jessica Whitley — Assistant to the Borough Manager, State College, Pennsylvania (Home of Pennsylvania State University)

• Jess is a public administrative professional with interest in program design, community engagement, youth advocacy and arts & culture, she is currently serving as the assistant to the Borough Manager in State College, Pennsylvania. Jess holds a 'Bachelor of Fine Arts' and a 'Master of Public Administration' from Syracuse University. A proud member of ICMA since 2022, Jess was a recipient of the prestigious Tranter Leong Fellowship in 2024 and began her journey at the Borough as a Local Government Management Fellow. Jess remains an active member of the SheLeadsGov Committee and the LGMF Alumni Committee. Grateful for the opportunities that have shaped her career, Jess remains deeply committed to serving the public and positively impact others.

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00:00 – Introduction: The

In the first MuniSquare Book

discussioin Podcast, colleagues dive into Paul Bloom’s provocative book Against Empathy. Bloom argues that emotional empathy can mislead us, create bias, and open us to manipulation. Instead, he proposes cultivating rational compassion.

Our panel wrestles with the book’s claims—exploring empathy’s role in public service, the ethics of neutrality, manipulation of emotions in politics, and whether empathy can help us navigate today’s polarized climate.

Dr. Tom Bryer is Pegasus professor in the School of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida,

Dr. Mike Rowe is Senior Lecturer in Public Sector Management at University of Liverpool, UK

Matt Candland is manager of South Boston, Virginia

Dr. Mandie Cantlin is manager at East Bradford Township, Pennsylvania

• [00:00] Introduction
• Overview of Paul Bloom’s book and the central question: is empathy always good, or can it lead us astray?
• [00:03] Tom’s Opening Challenge
• Emotional empathy vs. cognitive empathy; empathy’s unintended consequences in society
• [00:05] Matt’s Critique
• The “degree of empathy” and the need for moral grounding; empathy tethered to worldviews
• [00:06] Mike’s Perspective
• Empathy doesn’t always lead to action; questioning the head/heart divide
• [00:10] Mandie on Public vs. Private Roles
• How empathy differs when acting as an individual versus as a public servant
• [00:14] Politics, Torture, and the War on Terror
• Examples of how empathy is tethered and manipulated in high-stakes decision making
• [00:17] Manipulation of Emotions
• Willie Horton case, political campaigns, and the spotlight effect in policymaking
• [00:21] Empathy, Charity, and Bias
• Fundraising appeals and the effectiveness (and risks) of emotional storytelling
• [00:27] History as a Lens
• Carlisle Indian School as an example of empathy tethered to destructive cultural values
• [00:31] Rationality vs. Emotionality
• Debating whether reason and empathy can truly be separated
• [00:32] Empathy in Leadership
• Emotional intelligence, authenticity, and shifting trends in public leadership
• [00:33] Political Violence and Empathy
• Reflections on the shooting of Charlie Kirk, empathy’s role in both violence and reconciliation
• [00:39] Closing Reflections
• Final verdicts: qualified support for empathy but with cautions on its limits

In this episode of PCC Local Time, we sit down with three dynamic municipal leaders from southeastern Pennsylvania—John Ernst (Lansdale Borough), Amanda Lafty (Upper Merion Township), and Dave Burman (Haverford Township). Representing three generations of managers, they dive into the hard questions facing local governments today: housing instability, generational workforce changes, the role of social media, the looming fiscal cliff, zoning reform, and even the future of public utilities.

🗝️ Topics include:

• Housing pressures in boroughs and suburbs
• Workforce shifts and millennial recruitment
• Succession planning and structural reorganization
• Potential and limits of social media
• Zoning reform and housing affordability
• MS4 compliance burdens
• Shared services and regional collaboration

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APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

00:00 – Housing issues in Lansdale

05:00 – Workforce changes and generational transitions

08:30 – Collective bargaining and staff retention

11:00 – Succession planning and restructuring

13:00 – Using social media in recruitment

17:00 – Affordable housing and zoning tensions

21:00 – Accessory dwelling units and density

24:00 – Transit access and economic concerns

25:30 – Fiscal cliff and revenue diversification

28:30 – Public utilities and privatization

30:00 – MS4 mandates and funding responsibilities

32:00 – Magic wand ideas for civic education and communication

37:00 – Shared staffing and municipal collaboration

40:00 – Cross-community learning and rural leadership

42:30 – Closing reflections

This is the first episode of the APMM 2025 podcast series featuring regional roundtables. We are joined by three municipal managers: Greg Primm from Lower Burrell, Kristen Denne from Bethel Park, and Seth Abrams from Forest Hills. We talk about emotional resilience and the personal toll of being the buffer when tensions arise, the importance of honest dialogue with peers, especially within a region and shifting expectations from the workforce and the public.

Contact info:

Greg Primm

Kirsten Denne

Seth Abrams

APMM - Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management

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Key Topics:

• The erosion of professional advisory roles and ethical challenges when elected officials disregard legal codes.
• Legislation by social media" and the pressure for instant responses to public complaints
• Generational workforce challenges and the struggle to retain talent in an era of work-life balance expectations
• The impact of social media on decision-making and public expectations
• Balancing short-term political pressures with long-term municipal planning needs
• Regional cooperation strategies and emergency services challenges

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Greg's on professional standards erosion

00:03:30 - Kristen on "legislation by social media" concept

00:04:30 - Seth on zoning decision-making challenges

00:07:30 - Communication and social media strategy discussion

00:11:30 - Kristen - workforce and generational challenges

00:14:00 - Nancy asks about adapting work for younger employees

00:19:30 - Seth on staffing and resource constraints

00:22:00 - Nancy transitions to relationships with elected officials

00:29:00 - Magic wand section begins

00:35:30 - Nancy wraps up magic wand ideas

00:36:00 - Final thoughts and parting words begin

00:38:00 - Greg raises EMS crisis concerns

00:39:30 - Nancy introduces regionalization topic

00:44:00 - Positive ending with recruitment discussion

00:45:00 - Closing remarks and wrap-up

In this episode of PCC Local Time, Nancy Hess talks with Mike Baumwoll, co-founder and CEO of Rep’d, about how short-form video and authentic communication are transforming how local governments engage with their communities. From AI-driven script tools to lessons from Twitter and the entrepreneurial world, Mike shares actionable insights on how municipal leaders can overcome fear, speak with clarity, and build trust—both inside and outside their organizations. Whether you're a curious manager or a communications pro, this episode offers real-world examples and a hopeful path forward.

Themes: local government communication, community trust, short video strategy, AI for municipalities, civic engagement, human-centered leadership, government tech, authentic messaging.

Mike Baumwoll on LinkedIn

Rep'd Website

[00:00–02:00] Short Video Engagement: Local government videos show 70–80% completion rates, signaling residents prefer concise, authentic messages over long emails.

Core Lesson: Authenticity matters more than production quality.

[02:00–06:00] Building Relationships at Conferences: Trust in government tech starts with handshakes and real conversations. That’s how Rep’d connects with towns like Mount Jackson, VA.

[06:00–09:00]AI Readiness in Local Government: Mike describes three groups:

• Early adopters
• Hesitant or anxious
• Curious but cautious majority
• AI must be practical and easy to use to gain traction.

[09:00–12:00]Leadership Through Communication: Speaking clearly is a leadership skill. Residents don’t want perfect—they want real.

[12:00–17:00]Mike’s Background: From Lafayette College to Twitter, his career journey trained him in marketing, brand messaging, and client relationships. Entrepreneurship runs deep.

[17:00–20:00]Lessons from Twitter: The best communication meets people where they already are, taps into existing conversations, and feels organic—not forced.

[20:00–24:00]Crisis Communication: Whether it’s a flood, explosion, or school emergency, people need fast, clear updates from local officials—preferably via video, right on the homepage.

[24:00–27:00]Why Local Matters: Residents want to trust the people running their communities. It starts with knowing who they are.

[27:00–30:00]Coaching for Reluctant Speakers: Rep’d provides AI-generated scripts, teleprompters, and support to make recording simple—even for the nervous or tech-shy.

[30:00–32:00]Video as an Internal Leadership Tool: Skills gained through external communication translate to better internal communication and cohesion.

[32:00–35:00]From Twitter to Goverment: Mike didn’t imagine he’d end up in local government tech—but now he doesn’t want to be anywhere else.

[35:00–37:00]Advice for Entrepreneurs: Building for local government is different. You must care deeply and build trust first. It’s people work.

[37:00–End] Future of AI in Government: The entrepreneurial spotlight is shifting to government and AI. The investment is growing—but trust and simplicity must remain central.

This is a cross-over podcast episode from our Substack site MuniSquare. We hope you will enjoy and follow subscribe if you like what you see.

In this episode Nancy Hess and Mike Rowe from the University of Liverpool explore James C. Scott's groundbreaking book "Seeing Like a State" and its powerful implications for local government.

Discover how governments make society "legible" through mapping and regulation, why top-down planning often fails, and how everyday acts of resistance shape our communities. From Brasília's utopian architecture to contract farming's unintended consequences, this conversation reveals how Scott's insights help us understand everything from zoning disputes to the hidden knowledge that really keeps organizations running. Essential listening for anyone working in public administration, urban planning, or community development.

00:00 - 03:00 - Introduction and Context

Nancy introduces the episode structure and Scott's four key concepts; Mike explains discovering Scott's work at the intersection of public administration and anthropology

03:00 - 07:00 - Everyday Forms of Resistance

Explainer on hidden resistance in daily life; discussion of Indonesian flood management and animistic land practices

07:00 - 11:00 - From Job Descriptions to Legibility

Nancy's organizational development experience; Mike's story about the two women who "really ran" the university; introduction to legibility concept

11:00 - 16:00 - Legibility and Simplification

Explainer on cadastral mapping and forest management; immigration policy as example of complex simplification

16:00 - 20:00 - Planning and Local Knowledge

Discussion of urban sprawl, high-speed rail planning challenges, and Colin Ward's anarchist architecture

20:00 - 24:00 - Cadastral Mapping and Zoning

Historical context of land mapping for taxation; modern parallels in small business and cash economy

24:00 - 30:00 - High Modernism and Brasília

Explainer on Le Corbusier's influence; the story of Brasília's construction workers creating thriving informal settlements

30:00 - 36:00 - Agricultural Simplification

Contract farming as modern example; loss of generational farming knowledge; comparison to contracting out government services

36:00 - 42:00 - Local Government Applications

Lancaster County agriculture, mushroom farms vs. new developments, building on floodplains; practical advice for policy-making

42:00 - 43:00 - Conclusion

Reflections on Scott's political reception and continuing relevance

A few weeks ago, APMM concluded another successful conference in Lancaster Pennsylvania. This episode is a recording from one of the sessions and is part of the 2025 APMM series.

In this session, four past presidents of APMM open up about what it means to lead while legacy still shapes the norms. With humor, honesty, and insight, they share lessons on mentorship, advocacy, fitting in (or not), and what happens when you finally stop shrinking to fit.

This episode offers inspiration and strategy for anyone navigating leadership, from seasoned professionals to those just beginning the climb.

Guest Introductions:

Joining us for this episode are four respected leaders in Pennsylvania municipal management:

Amanda Serock is manager of Concord Township, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. She teaches at Villa Nova University, from where she received her MPA and began her career in local government in 2005. She is an advocate for leaders coming up in the field.

Stephanie Teoli Kuhls has worked in municipal government for over 34 years, most recently serving as Township Manager in Middletown Township, Bucks County. She began her career in 1991, received her MPA from PennStaate and now teaches at Villanova University, where she continues her passion for mentoring emerging leaders in the field.

Amy Farkas is the Township Manager of Patton Township in Centre County and previously served for 17 years in Harris Township. She began her career in local government in 1997, received her MPA from Penn State and has been an active member of APMM since 2005.

Stephanie Mason is the longtime Township Manager of Doylestown Township in Bucks County, where she has served for 38 years, including 25 as manager. She received her MPA from University of Pittsburth and served as APMM's president in 2011 and 2012, she also represented the region on the ICMA Executive Board.

00:00–02:00 | Framing the Conversation

02:00–04:00 | Breaking Into APMM Leadership

04:00–07:00 | What It’s Really Like to Be APMM President

07:00–09:30 | Reform from Within

09:30–12:00 | Professional Advocacy in a Biased System

12:00–15:00 | The Invisible Problems

15:00–17:30 | Claiming Space and Leading with Confidence

17:30–20:00 | How to Get Involved (Even if You're Not Ready for a Committee)

20:00–23:00 | Mentoring and Pushing Others to Lead

23:00–26:00 | Don’t Make Yourself Small

In this powerful session from the APMM annual conference, three former Pennsylvania municipal managers—now working in other states—return to reflect on the structural and political challenges facing the profession in Pennsylvania. They explore what’s holding the profession back, including outdated laws, weak employment protections, fractured local governance, and lack of advocacy. Together with facilitator Dave Kratzer and the audience, they tackle tough questions: Can a manager be both neutral and political? What’s the real role of local government today? And who’s protecting the managers doing the work?

This candid, collegial, and at times gritty conversation is a wake-up call to local leaders—and a call to action for the next generation.

This is part of the 2025 APMM Series. Follow this podcast on your player to catch the next episode!

Quotes:

  📍 A question that needs to be asked across the Commonwealth is, at its core, what is the role of local government? Almost all of us would probably agree. It's not really just to. Pave roads plow and, help take care of trash. As Dave said, the government of a right.

What do our constituents expect of us? These municipal codes that say what we can and can't do are oftentimes tying our hands, so I think there needs to be a conversation about what is the future of municipal government and how can laws be modified. - Eden Ratliff

  📍 We just had a general session on ethics, and there were some really good hypotheticals that were introduced.

And I think we as a cohort can generally agree on the responses to some of those hypotheticals. But I'll tell you, as somebody speaking from personal experience when you're in them, it's a different ballgame. It's much more difficult to stick to the script and answer that way. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 The problem in Pennsylvania is unlike all of the other employee groups, we don't really have anyone representing us. If we think it's PML, you're kidding yourself.

That's not a knock on PML. But if you think about who they represent the elected officials. They don't represent the managers. When the two align, they'll certainly back up. Just understand who they are really working for and who pays their bills. - Matt Candland

  📍 If I had a magic wand, and I'm gonna, I'm just here offend all of you one way or another, but one of the change what I think would be one of the best ways to help the management profession in Pennsylvania is consolidation. - Matt Candland

  📍 I think the reality is if you can manage here in Pennsylvania, you can manage anywhere. This is a state where the manager is a Jack or Jane of all trades and a master of none. You get so much exposure to the direct work we do as local government officials that when you go to a community out of state where that might be delegated or you have a staff that can handle that you can speak with exactitude about how you approached, the situation. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 It's really hard to do big things in the Commonwealth. But a bunch of little things do lead to big things. And all of you are doing that in your communities. - Eden Ratliff

APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

David Kratzer, Session Facilitator

Dave Pribulka, Guest

Eden Ratliff,...