In this 3rd and final part of April and Glen’s conversation with Presidential Scholars co-director Mike Hemphill, Mike reflects on the power of courageous leadership rooted in authentic relationships. He describes examples such as those between U.S. senators David Pryor and Dan Quayle, who prioritized their relationship and shared values over a political issue. He also cited the navigating of political divides between local Arkansas leaders, as well as his mediation work between Little Rock and North Little Rock, showing how honest listening and human connection can solve real problems. Mike also highlights the hopeful, hands‑on collaboration he sees through the Clinton School’s community-focused faculty, reminding us that while technology can help, meaningful progress still depends on personal engagement and mindful communication.

In this second part of our On The Other Hand conversation with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen explore the PLS program, how their students are trained in the "laboratory" environment they provide, and also how bridging divides can be accomplished through good leadership. Mike digs into how we make sense of the world—and of each other—when facts, stories, and values collide. He also explains why storytelling can be such a powerful way to build understanding across political divides. Participants in the PLS Program often grow by widening their perspective, forming relationships across differences, and reflecting deeply on their own assumptions—sometimes leading to major personal or career changes, according to Mike's account. Additional conversation reveals how leadership lessons can be drawn from multiple presidential administrations, focusing on how leaders make decisions and work together. Mike provides the example of the enduring friendship that developed between Presidents George H W Bush and Bill Clinton and their shared commitment to service in times of crisis. Mike sees this relationship as one hopeful model for bridge-building and unity in a deeply divided moment. Next up: part 3 of our conversation!

In this first part of our interview with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen learn how Mike's path from academia to leadership work shaped a simple but powerful belief: leadership grows out of real human interaction, not titles or formulas. He talks about why patience, curiosity, and reflection matter so much when we’re trying to communicate across differences, and how ideas from communication theory—and even jazz improvisation—help explain what good conversation really looks like. Mike also introduces the Presidential Leadership Scholars Program he co-directs, describing it as a hands-on “leadership lab” that brings together people from very different backgrounds and communities. Rather than teaching leadership from a textbook, the program focuses on storytelling, personal experience, and relationships, showing how listening, openness, and connection can broaden perspectives and help people lead more thoughtfully across political and cultural divides.

In part 3 of our conversation with Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen delve into broader issues of the law and the jurisprudential philosophies that influence decision-making by courts in the state and nationally. Recent increased use of the “shadow docket” by the US Supreme court is of concern to Annabelle, as it has a major impact on the legal status of ongoing cases without providing any rationale into the reasons for these initial decisions, leaving attorneys and courts around the country with no guidance toward resolving important legal and constitutional questions. A fascinating discussion ensues on how recent Supreme Court decisions in her view can take too big of a “slice” in some legal cases and how that can mistakenly get ahead of public opinion, an important consideration in promoting societal acceptance of the court’s decisions. We also hear about her volunteer activities during her retirement that include advocacy for greater access to the legal system by the disadvantaged.

In part 2 of our conversation with retired Arkansas Supreme Court Justice Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen explore her faith journey as she converted to Judaism, its coherence with her legal philosophy, and the Torah’s serving as a foundation for much of Western law. We also hear about her moral and legal views that led to her decisions in some legal rulings in Arkansas that continue to influence the legal landscape. Specifically, Annabelle provides a fascinating first-hand account of the thinking and judicial issues associated with the Lakeview school District case that changed the way Arkansas funded public education. She also helps us understand the underpinnings of the case involving the LGBTQ community that overturned laws against sodomy. Annabelle also shares her observations about the current judicial and legal environment that has recently changed in so many important ways that it now seems to her “another world.“

April and Glen are joined by Annabelle Clinton Imber Tuck, a trailblazer in Arkansas law and the first woman ever elected to the Arkansas Supreme Court. In this first part of our conversation with Annabelle, we hear about her early life, starting in Arkansas, and including living in South America and later in Washington, DC, then winding up back in her beloved home state of Arkansas. She describes her early life influences, her interests in the legal profession, and the intense sense of justice and fairness that has influenced her work through the years. She also explains her political leanings, which some may find surprising. She highlights her longstanding desire for everyone in court to be heard and for justice to be done, with emphasis on the value of due process.

This episode of On The Other Hand is a “best of” recording of an interview in July 2024, when Glen and April spoke with Asa Hutchinson, an attorney and the previous 2-term Republican governor of Arkansas. Asa’s long history of public service includes serving as a US Congressman, one of the House managers for Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in the Senate, head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, and chair of the National Governors Association. Asa had just recently concluded an unsuccessful campaign for the Republican presidential nominee for the 2024 election at the time of this interview. In the interview, Asa described his then current activities, what he viewed as highlights of his career, and the approach he took as governor. He explained how he handled the COVID pandemic during his term as governor, which included consulting with a variety of experts and weighing various views to help him find a way to manage Arkansas's approach to COVID that adhered to his conservative philosophy. While he outlined his strong conservative credentials, Asa also expressed concerns about several developments nationally. In particular, we heard his criticisms of how he saw the Republican party as having moved away from traditional conservative values, and his conviction that civility and compromise remain critical for the success of our government.

In part 2 of our conversation with community activist Kwami Abdul-Bey, we hear about both his formal and atypical means of education that have led him to who he is today. He also outlines problems during his early times at the Air Force Academy due to his Muslim religion and related negative reactions occurring at a time when war with Iraq was breaking out. Some of his challenges during his early years included time being homeless. Subsequent choices about education were made with an eye to learning how best to help his community and to pass that information along to his fellow citizens. Emphasizing the importance of participation in democracy, Kwami asserts that “the fewer citizens that are involved in the process, the better off the people in power are.” He also reminds us that it is our responsibility to prepare our world to be in better shape for our children, relating it to the native American “7 generations rule”. Throughout the interview, Kwami focuses on the importance of all citizens getting involved and participating in democracy.