This is the final episode of the Let's Think Digital podcast in its current form.

I've been thinking a lot about transitions recently. Last month, I had the honour of being asked to serve as Vice President of Learning and Leadership at the Institute of Governance. The IOG is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that I’ve worked with for a number of years that does important work to advance good public governance. Its mission is needed now more than ever as governments are under increased expectations to modernize and evolve to meet the moment. I'm excited to take on this challenge and bring my work from Think Digital under IOG's banner.

With this change, it seemed like the right time to think about the future of this podcast as well. It has been a really amazing experience hosting the podcast these past three seasons and I'm very proud of what we've been able to produce and share with our broader community through it. The goal was always to help spark greater awareness and more conversations about what it means to have a modern, effective government in a digital world. I feel like we've been able to help move this discussion forward. I'm also heartened that increasingly others are raising these issues and adding their voices to the mix. However for me personally, this felt like the right time to bring this particular iteration of the podcast to a close for now.

So on this final episode, I wanted to share my thoughts about transitions. Not just for me personally, but also about the transition that institutions and society are facing in this current moment of uncertainty and change we are all in.

And of course, I wanted to take the time to thank all of you for joining us on this journey over the last few years. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure to bring you these conversations and I'm so grateful for our growing audience of thousands of people from across Canada and dozens of countries around the world. Please stay subscribed and engaged, as I do hope that we will continue to be able to bring you content and perspective from time to time from myself and our colleagues in the digital government ecosystem.

Finally my sincere thanks to our team and everyone who has contributed to building and producing Let's Think Digital over the past few years. In particular I want to thank our producer (and my friend) Wayne Chu, as without his hard work and dedication none of this would have happened.

My sincerest thanks again, and as always, let's keep thinking digital!

-Ryan Androsoff, Host of Let's Think Digital

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/bSuHinHC4Ps?si=Apa0EuQcQudH-isb

Related Links

• Ryan on CBC Radio's The Current with Matt Galloway talking about Estonia's digital transformation and lessons for Canada
• Ryan on Derek Alton's Civic Punks talking about why Canada has declined in international rankings around digital government
• Ryan on the GovMaker podcast with Nick Scott and Jason Pearman talking about his career journey and advice on how to innovate in government
• Kathryn May's The Functionary newsletter

To change systems, sometimes you need to bend the rules, or even rewrite them. That's the argument that Alistair Croll and Emily Ross make in their new book, Just Evil Enough: The Subversive Marketing Handbook. In this episode we speak to Alistair about his new book, which offers numerous case studies and frameworks on how to drive change with subversive tactics while keeping in mind how far is too far. Indeed, one chapter in the book is titled: "Don't Actually be Evil"!

This is particularly relevant in this year of transition and change. Whether it is elections and new government mandates coming in Canada (and a new Prime Minister, or maybe two!), or the shocking takeover of government systems in the United States by Elon Musk's "Department of Government Efficiency", it's important to understand the ways in which people are able to disrupt systems that resist change.

Watch on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I21jkJ98W6A

Related Links

• Just Evil Enough: The Subversive Marketing Handbook, by Alistair Croll and Emily Ross

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:04 Interview with Alistair

10:18 How Much Change Can Government Absorb?

21:55 Are Leaders Equipped to Understand Change?

31:42 Looking to the Future

38:44 Conclusion

Data is the lifeblood of any organization, including government. And in today’s digital age, there are very real questions about whether governments are capable of managing the enormous amount of data that is now collected. We’re no longer in an era where data was created at human scale with pen and paper on a government form. Instead, governments are increasingly being flooded with an avalanche of digital data from a huge number of sources. And there are high expectations that governments are able to use these data points to make better decisions, that data is managed responsibility, and that the people in government have the ability to consume all of this data in an increasingly complex world.

Not only that, but governments now need to be prepared for the rapid evolution of artificial intelligence and the increasing incorporation of machine learning models, semantic analysis, and algorithmic decision-making applications in programs and service delivery. These are technologies built on big data, and governments need to be prepared to leverage them in the public interest.

So this week, we’re talking to three people (and one Artificial Intelligence!) who have been thinking deeply about the policy and capacity challenges that governments need to get ahead of when it comes to their data posture.

Our first conversation is with Maddy Dwyer, a Policy Analyst from the Center for Democracy and Technology. Maddy has been conducting research on the tension between leveraging data to improve the lives of citizens, including those from marginalized communities, and the dangers if we don’t do this responsibility. This conversation took place last November on the conference floor at FWD50 in Ottawa.

The second conversation is with Anna Wong, a Director at the Government of Canada's Treasury Board Secretariat, and Trevor Banks, Manager of Digital Organisational Design in the same team. They have been working on efforts to support organizational change across the Federal government to establish clear accountabilities and responsibilities for Chief Data Officers and other senior digital and data leaders across the public service to help them manage the quickly rising expectations of government in the age of AI.

And, as a fun little experiment, our third conversation is directly with what is perhaps the most famous AI model in the world these days: OpenAI's ChatGPT. Using ChatGPT's voice input/output feature we ask it what it thinks about all of these issues around data and AI in government we're hearing about. Ryan also asks it his favourite hard-hitting AI question: does it think it is smarter than his cats?

Watch on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgB7KcmXaZA

Related Links

• Maddy Dwyer's research at the Center for Democracy and Technology
• 2023-2026 Data Strategy for the Federal Public Service
• The Evolving Role of the Chief Data Officer, report by the Institute on Governance

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

03:02 Maddy Dwyer

20:54 Anna Wong and Trevor Banks

46:36 Interview with ChatGPT

1:01:37 Conclusion