Episodes

  • Kerre Woodham: State houses are a launchpad, not a permanent solution

    Kerre Woodham: State houses are a launchpad, not a permanent solution
    Oct 16 2025
    Fewer state houses, more private rentals. The New Zealand Initiative believes that giving tenants vouchers to spend on rent could help more vulnerable people and save taxpayers money. And Sir Bill English agrees. In a rare interview on the Mike Hosking Breakfast this morning, the former Prime Minister says providing state housing is not just about putting a roof over the head of a vulnerable family. You know, the point of social housing is to change lives. And that means focusing on the people more than the houses. And it means who owns the houses is less important than what you're doing to support the tenants. All housing solutions are local, and all housing solutions are about individuals and families. So, you know, how many houses should someone own who is supporting and understanding the needs of tenants and taking part in a community? Well, you need a bit of scale, you know, probably a few thousand houses. I think Tāmaki Redevelopment Company has got about 5,000. That looks about a good scale. What we found though, was impressive energy and innovation with everyone from Autism New Zealand to Iwi and NGOs, private developers who can do a better job of this than Kāinga Ora. Well, yes, this is not new, but it's been spelt out fairly explicitly in the New Zealand Initiative report, “Owning Less to Achieve More”. In the report, the authors said the large-scale government housing ownership was problematic, wasteful, and not the most effective way to help people into homes. On the evidence, it is plausible that both taxpayers and tenants could be better off if the government were less dominant as a landlord, and if its subsidies empowered tenants by giving them a greater choice of landlord. That's according to the report author, New Zealand Initiative senior fellow Dr. Bryce Wilkinson. The report went on that state housing agency Kāinga Ora's maintenance costs were nearly twice that of a private landlord, and it had not been good at managing rent debt or dealing with troublesome tenants. We know that. We've heard from contractors during the Labour years of the absolute rorting that went on when it came to invoicing for work done. As soon as the job came in and you knew it was a job for KO, you simply inflated the invoice. Nobody was going to be checking. They told us that was going on all the time across every division of Labour. Matt Crocket, who's running KO right now, is doing a good job of getting back to basics, but the point remains that there will be people and agencies who can and do a much better job, not just of housing people, but as Bill English said, of getting people into a position where they can get into their own home, or when that's not possible, of helping them live truly meaningful lives. I remember Bernie Smith too, the former Monte Cecilia Housing Trust CEO, saying that the reason they didn't have as many problematic tenants in their social housing was because they had case managers who knew the tenants. Their case managers weren't overwhelmed with tenants and problematic tenants. They knew the tenants' trigger points, they could head off trouble before it started. The report says government issued vouchers for people to spend on rent would give people more choice and empower them. And according to the report, that way the government could help people without having to own the houses and give money where it was most needed. The report author says the person uses it to find the best trade-off for themselves. If they've got extra expenses for children with disabilities, they might choose a cheaper house at less rental and use the cash to help pay for their education or medical services or vice versa. Empowerment. Now, there's a thing. Choice. There's a thing. But it will come down to an absolute clash of ideology. The idea of giving vulnerable people choice and empowerment is completely alien to the previous ethos, which was, we will look after you, don't think for yourself, we'll make sure that everything is done for you. Which has got to be the most patronizing, expensive in terms of money and in terms of human potential, way of dealing with people. And I cannot see the current Labour government agreeing in any way, shape or form to going down that ideological path of actually empowering people and giving them choice, saying to agencies, okay, you do a great job. Here's the money, you house these people, you know them, you know what they need. You're passionate about seeing them live full and meaningful lives. Go for it. Personally, I think that's the way to go. I have not lived in a state house. My dad came from a state house, his siblings grew up in a state house. Nobody from that family ever needed a state house again. It was a launch pad for all of them, and for all of us, for the kids and the cousins. Nobody's ever needed it since, and that's the way it should be. Empowerment, choice, you're not a victim, you do not need to be looked after...
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    7 mins
  • Paul Gilberd: CEO of community housing says focus should remain on helping the most vulnerable people

    Paul Gilberd: CEO of community housing says focus should remain on helping the most vulnerable people
    Oct 15 2025

    A report by The New Zealand Initiative finds the Government's ownership of 77,000 state houses has maintenance costs nearly twice that of a private landlord.

    It finds it also doesn't respond quickly enough to issues like rent arrears, and troublesome tenants.

    CEO of community housing Paul Gilberd told Kerre Woodham that the top priority for government housing is to support society's most vulnerable people.

    'We're seeing huge surge in, youth and older adult and women's homelessness, which is very much hidden because women in particular are not safe on the streets.'

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    9 mins
  • Clare de Lore: Chair of the Press Gallery under Jim Bolger pays tribute to late Prime Minister

    Clare de Lore: Chair of the Press Gallery under Jim Bolger pays tribute to late Prime Minister
    Oct 15 2025

    Former New Zealand Prime Minister Jim Bolger has died at the age of 90. He was New Zealand's 35th prime minister, in power from 1990 to 1997.

    After leaving Parliament in 1998, Bolger became New Zealand's ambassador to the United States and later Chancellor of the University of Waikato.

    Clare de Lore is a journalist who was Chair of the Press Gallery at the time Jim Bolger was Prime Minister, and a close friend of the family.

    She told Kerre Woodham that, 'it was a really happy environment in which he was until very recently when he had to go to hospital.'

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    9 mins
  • Kerre Woodham: The failure of Fees Free

    Kerre Woodham: The failure of Fees Free
    Oct 15 2025
    Do you want another example of Labour's ideology over pragmatism? I really, really hope that the previous Labour ministers have learned from their previous terms in government that thought bubbles and bright ideas do not sound policy make. Remember Fees Free? The policy was introduced in 2018 and was a key part of Labour's election campaign. The first year of tertiary study would be free for students. It would progressively roll out to cover three years, which never eventuated. We, the taxpayer, provided up to $12,000 in tuition fee payments for the first year of provider-based study or the first two years of work-based learning. The idea behind the objective was sound and worthy. The Labour Government, Jacinda Ardern, Chris Hipkins, et al, billed it as improving equity and opening the doors to higher learning for disadvantaged people for whom the doors would otherwise be closed. Labour expected to see a first-in-family effect. There would be students who would be the first in their families to attend higher education, now a significant cost barrier would be removed. Did that happen? Thank you for asking, no, it didn't. Over the years 2017 to 2022, European, Māori, Pacific, and Asian participation rates stayed relatively steady. The failure to shift the dial, the New Zealand Herald reports, was so evident that in 2020, Labour shifted the policy's purpose to reducing student debt levels. All right, well we can't get disadvantaged kids to university, we can't get first in family. Oh, I know, we'll use the taxpayer money to reduce student debt level. The failed objectives were to increase participation in tertiary study, expand access by reducing financial barriers, and support lifelong learning. Nope. First year fees-free was limited to learners with little to no prior study, limiting lifelong learning support, the analysis said from the Ministry of Education. It described the scheme as a lot of money for little behavioural change, or as they put it, a high deadweight cost. From this year, the Coalition Government has changed the scheme so it applies to the final year of study, with payment following the completion of studies. The policy has three objectives: to incentivize learners, particularly disadvantaged learners, to finish their studies, to reward learners who complete their program of study, to reduce the overall cost of study. The Ministry of Education officials say this is going to fail too. Particularly for degree level study, once a learner reaches their final year, they are already far more likely to complete than those first entering study. So basically, they said it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. By the time you reach your third year, you're going to finish whether the taxpayer is paying for your final year of fees or not. You're motivated enough to stay. They say the second goal is essentially meaningless. Of course there's going to be a completion of qualifications. And the third objective, will most likely succeed, to reduce the overall cost of study. And it will at least help the government's books, the trade-off being an estimated $230 million a year in student debt or more debt repayments than would otherwise occur. So thought bubbles don't make sound policy. The thing that really concerned me in the early years of Labour was that they were ideas I'd think of – ‘Oh, I know, let's do this’. Which is great, but you have to think it through, and you have to listen to your advisors, and you have to listen when people say, "Mm, I'm not entirely sure that we're going to be able to build 100,000 houses." "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what about if we do this?" And we just throw as much money as we possibly can at it. And on the face of it, taking away that first year of paying your fees – "Hey, gang, I've got an idea. Let's take away that first year of fees so that disadvantaged kids will see university as a great option." I mean, it doesn't take much scratching beyond the surface to see that's not going to work. And we all said that at the time, didn't we? We discussed it. And now it looks like according to the analysis that fees-free final year won't work either. At least not for getting disadvantaged kids through degrees. For those who are highly motivated and have families that go to university, it's like, "Hooray!" Excellent. We'll take the $12,000 off our student debt, thanks very much, and good. If it helps motivated kids get through their study with less of a financial burden around their neck, it makes it easier for them to move onto the next phase of their life, buying a home, starting a family, this is all good. You know, but in terms of the objectives, it's going to fail. But they have to keep it because of the coalition agreement with both NZ First and ACT. So they might have to do what Labour did and just rewrite the objectives. Our objective is that we reward kids who were going to go to university anyway, who are motivated, who ...
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    7 mins
  • Mark Mitchell: Police Minister on the support available for those wanting to leave gangs

    Mark Mitchell: Police Minister on the support available for those wanting to leave gangs
    Oct 15 2025

    What do you do if you want to leave a gang?

    A coroner has found that Napier Mongrel Mob leader Neil Angus Benson, otherwise known as Heil Dogg, felt trapped in his position in the gang in the months leading up to his suicide in December 2024.

    In his report, Coroner Wilton said Benson appeared to be under "psychological strain of his leadership position in the Mongrel Mob gang".

    “He also described an internal dilemma: wanting to exit the gang lifestyle, but recognising he was too deeply involved for a straightforward exit.”

    So if you want out, what can you do?

    Police Minister Mark Mitchell told Kerre Woodham that from a government perspective, there is a significant amount of support they can provide.

    He says if someone makes the decision to leave and has the fortitude to follow through, the Government will get alongside them and help them.

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    6 mins
  • Kirk Sargent: First Foundation CEO on the programme supporting lower socioeconomic students through tertiary study

    Kirk Sargent: First Foundation CEO on the programme supporting lower socioeconomic students through tertiary study
    Oct 14 2025

    Another option to go alongside fees free study.

    The Labour Government introduced First Year Fees Free in 2018, providing tertiary students with up to $12,000 in tuition cover for the first year of provider-based study, or the first two years of work-based learning.

    The Coalition Government has changed the scheme from this year, applying it to the final year of study instead.

    The policy had three objectives, to incentivise learners, particularly disadvantaged learners, to finish their studies; to reward learners who complete their programme of study; to reduce the overall cost of study.

    However, officials say, like its predecessor, this policy is likely to fail too.

    First Foundation is a wraparound programme that picks up academically talented but low-income students in year 12, giving them support, mentorship, and financial assistance for university.

    First Foundation CEO Kirk Sargent told Kerre Woodham they’d welcome the chance to grab that $12,000, invest it into young people and get more people coming through the tertiary environment.

    He says New Zealand has a productivity issue, and programmes like this could be a solution that would benefit the economy in the long run.

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    9 mins
  • Kerre Woodham: Our kids are back on track

    Kerre Woodham: Our kids are back on track
    Oct 13 2025
    I love the fact that New Zealand Education Minister Erica Stanford and the Prime Minister presented improved reading stats to the nation yesterday. Erica Stanford was very quick to praise teachers for the much-improved results in phonics reading. She said this is an incredible improvement in reading scores in less than half a year and reflects the brilliant work teachers are doing, and it does. Teachers have had a difficult time with changes in curriculum and dealing with increasingly disruptive children and school closures during Covid – it has been a difficult time. But when given a challenge, and when given a mandate, and given the tools to help do it, they rose to the challenge and the results have been, in these very early stages, remarkable. There needed to be a turnaround. New Zealand's reading results have been declining since 2006 in the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, which is done every five years, and just about every international test where we mark ourselves against other countries we have been on a downward spiral. Interestingly, educators, teachers, principals insisted that it's just tests. Our kids don't like tests, they don't like being compared, it's a very crude way to measure achievement. No, not really, it's not. It's an accurate assessment of where we were at. And where we were at was dismal. The results from this year look extremely promising. Data showed 58% of students were at or above expectations at their 20-week phonics check in Term 3. That's up from 36% in Term 1. So they were measured after Term 1 – the little five-year-olds were at or above expectations, 36% of them in Term 1, and that has moved to 58% in Term 3. In Term 3, 43% of students were classed as exceeding expectations, more than double the Term 1 rate. For Māori students in mainstream education, 47% of them required further support with phonics in Term 3. That is down from 62% of them needing support in Term 1. So to put it in another slightly more positive way, in Term 1 a quarter of Māori students were at or above expectations, by Term 3, that was 43%. So that's a significant difference. Education Minister Erica Stanford says this is only the beginning. “From next year, twice a year, every year in reading, writing and maths, there'll be a progress monitoring check-in. I do not call it a test. But we will be essentially assessing every child from year three to make sure that they're on track with their reading, writing and maths. And that includes higher level literacy like comprehension.” I have absolute faith that we'll see a lift in children's educational achievements under the new curriculum. Structured literacy, which involves explicitly teaching word identification, including through phonics, became mandatory in schools at the start of this year. Certainly it was used in many schools before this, but not necessarily by every teacher at every year level. It was very much hit and miss, and that was one of the things they talked about in the election campaign. They didn't want educational success to be by postcode because one principal did things one way and another principal did things another way. They wanted a standardized education for every child right across the country, and one that worked. Labour leader Chris Hipkins was quick to claim credit for the structured literacy program, telling reporters after the press conference yesterday the scheme had been underway under the previous Labour government. It was being rolled out, he said. We were in the early stages of rolling it out, but then we lost the election. Clearly, we believe in it, we developed it, the vast bulk of the work around structured literacy was done when Jan Tinetti was Associate Minister of Education and I was the Minister. Right. You had six years to make the changes, being generous, to look at the science and introduce a best practice for all of our Kiwi kids, but you didn't. You didn't. And as for the comment he made too, in a really churlish kind of look at me, what about us? He said, of course we'd be making more progress if teachers were in the classroom rather than on strike because the Government are offering them a real terms pay cut. Short memory former Education Minister. 2023 was a terrible year, absolutely terrible year for strike action by teachers. In March 2023, tens of thousands of primary, area, and secondary school teachers participated in an historic one-day walkout, but that show of strength didn't work. Despite the fact Labour is supposed to be the teachers' friend, teachers, primary and or secondary, went on strike for six days in 2023. And there were further rolling strikes and works to rule. So yeah, it would have been good to have them in the classroom in 2023 when you were Prime Minister, especially after the disruption of Covid. Ultimately though, what matters is our kids are back on track. Baby steps, but it's a very, very good beginning. For hundreds ...
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    7 mins
  • Kerre Woodham: Voting matters - don't scramble at the last minute

    Kerre Woodham: Voting matters - don't scramble at the last minute
    Oct 12 2025
    Well, better late than not at all. On Saturday morning, I went upstairs and said to my daughter, "Have you seen the orange envelopes that had all the voting?" "Oh, hell. Today, isn't it?" she said. "Yes." So we scrambled around and found it in that drawer that has everything, where they'd been since they arrived in the mail. And we had until midday to vote, so both got down to it, and I took hers in with mine to drop into the local library. I knew who I wanted to vote for, so that was relatively simple. And picked up her voting papers in the sealed envelope and mine, and went to our local library, and dropped them in. Which is what I did last local body elections. Scrambled around, but I had to make a special vote because I couldn't find my papers and posted them in Hamilton, at a library in Hamilton, just on the stroke of midday. I didn't even know if my vote counted, but hopefully it did. Hopefully I made it in time, and this time it certainly should. I wasn't the only one leaving it to the last minute, and I wasn't the only one scrambling around trying to get a special vote, as I'd done in the previous local body elections. The library was absolutely chocker when I went in there to post the envelopes. There was probably around about 30 odd people sitting on chairs and another 20 waiting to cast a special vote. At least we were trying to have our say. At least, even though we'd left it to the very last minute, we were trying to have our say in local body elections. And hopefully, by the time all of the special votes have been counted, the voter turnout will come up slightly because at the moment, it's the lowest voter turnout in 36 years. Less than a third of us, 32.65%, bothered to have our say. Of those who did, typically, it's the lazy city goers who were the most useless. In metro areas, only 28.8% cast their votes. Those in the provinces, 38.3%. While the rural turnout, yet again, it's the rural folk doing the heavy lifting, 43.6%. Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch saw mayors elected with a landslide, if you can call it that when you've got such a low proportion of voters turning out. Local Government New Zealand wants to get voter turnout to 80%. As they say in the Placemakers ad, tell him he's dreaming. Mayor Brown called it a strong endorsement to finish what he started, which is over-egging the omelette. Andrew Little felt thrilled, excited, and somewhat daunted by the job ahead as Wellington Mayor. And Phil Major was surprised at the size of his majority. To be honest, I'm not particularly enthused about re-electing Wayne Brown. I did, but because there was very little in the way of options. He's not the most engaging of personalities, but, you know, when you're looking for a mayor, he turns up sober, gets things done, hasn't bonked anyone in the Ngati Whatua room. You know, so go Wayne. Better than you can say about other mayors around the country and in the past. And that's kind of how you get elected these days. If you're vaguely adequate, then people voters just think, thank heavens, and give you the tick. How on earth do we get a better turnout and more engaged communities? Councils matter. In 2024, councils across the country were responsible for $217 billion dollars' worth of assets and employed 39 and a half thousand staff. They had a collective spending power of $20 billion dollars. It really matters. That's our money. Political parties know the power of controlling these assets. Blocks of politically motivated people try to get on councils to push their agendas through. And they can do that because of the apathy of the voters. I mean, look what happened in Wellington. But what do we do? I think I'm preaching to the converted here. I imagine most of you would have been very sensible and cast your vote long before Saturday morning like me. But you and I are interested in politics. We know that we have a responsibility to vote. Don't we? I'm imagining that most of you would have turned out. If you didn't, I'd love to know why. If you did, how do we get more people to take an interest? The good councillors, and you know the ones in your area, I know the ones in mine, do their level best to get out there an show you what they're doing, show you how they're spending your money, exhorting you to take an interest in what they're doing, exhorting you to critique their performance. I don't know how it can be too hard. Maybe reading up on the backgrounds of the candidates, maybe reading what they want to spend your money on is hard. But so too is finding out that something you're vehemently opposed to or that your rates are going up and you've got no idea why. That's hard too. Choose your hard. Maybe having polling booths, maybe not having so long, because otherwise they go in that drawer where everything goes. I don't know. I would love to hear your ideas. Because it matters. It really does matter - $217 billion dollars worth of assets and a collective spending power of $20 billion...
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    7 mins