What to listen for:

Our hosts, Robin Greubel, Stacy Barnett, and Crystal Wing, dive deep into a counterintuitive training philosophy sparked by their recent interview with Petra Ford: sometimes accepting imperfection creates better performance in complex behavior chains.

The conversation began with Petra's story about reinforcing her dog even when she knew it wasn't sitting perfectly square. When working on complex detection behaviors, trying to perfect every element simultaneously can destroy the bigger picture. As Robin notes with her recall-refine work over 600 feet of varied terrain, if she withheld reinforcement because her dog's elbows weren't perfectly down, she'd be punishing extraordinary effort over a minor detail.

Crystal's breakthrough came through Denise Fenzi's exercise that forced her to reward every single repetition—even mistakes. When her dog Checkmate downed instead of sitting, Crystal still had to reward it. "I thought it would ruin my training," she admits, "but instead it ruined my frustration." The exercise revealed that her dogs were trying harder than she'd realized. They weren't being disobedient; they were navigating the learning process.

The Dames of Detection emphasize balance throughout. Yes, reward imperfect efforts when building complex chains or working through challenging problems. But don't reside there permanently—sloppy chains help no one. The key is reading patterns: one mistake is information, three times becomes a training issue to address.

Every attempt provides valuable information. Whether working detection, obedience, or protection sports, dogs need to feel free to try without fear of shutdown. When handlers create that emotional safety through strategic reinforcement—even of imperfect attempts—dogs develop the grit and resilience needed for complex work.

Key Topics:

• Petra Ford's Philosophy on Complex Behavior Chains (00:59)
• Recall-Refine Over Distance: When Good Enough is Great (02:52)
• Teaching Scent Theory vs. Perfect Alerts (05:00)
• Crystal's Breakthrough: Rewarding Every Repetition (12:33)
• Building Duration Behaviors (22:41)
• Reading Patterns vs. One-Off Mistakes (36:20)
• Final Takeaways on Clarity and Balance (41:51)

Resources:

• K9 Detection Collaborative Episode 142: Talking Training with Petra Ford Pt 1
• K9 Detection Collaborative Episode 143: Talking Training with Petra Ford Pt 2

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

Our hosts, Robin Greubel, Stacy Barnett, and Crystal Wing, do a deep dive into their recent Intentional Handling and Hide Setting camp where, during a sweltering week in Iowa, seventeen detection dog teams discovered how unconscious body positioning can make or break a search!

The breakthrough moment came on Thursday during an outdoor search. A handler, diligently following instructions to avoid "going full frontal" on hides, had positioned herself away from the actual hide, directly facing an odor pool instead. Her dog searched frantically in that pool, unable to solve the problem.

"I want you to go full frontal on the hide," Robin instructed, breaking her own rule. Without saying another word to the dog, the handler simply shifted her feet toward the actual hide location. The dog immediately moved to source and alerted.

This demonstration crystallized the camp's core philosophy: intentional handling means making conscious decisions about every movement.

As Stacy explains, "It's about purposeful handling in a way that supports the independence and autonomy of the dog, but in a way that's also making the search effective and efficient."

The sweet spot lies between abdicating responsibility—just following your dog around—and micromanaging to the point where the dog loses all autonomy.

Crystal's Six C's framework provided the mental component. When handlers move with purpose, dogs search with confidence. But intention goes beyond physical positioning. It also shapes how handlers approach each search mentally. Starting with curiosity allowed students to observe without judgment, opening them to discoveries about their own unconscious patterns.

The camp's structure reinforced these lessons through repetition. Watching 34 team runs of identical problems revealed how subtle handler movements created dramatically different search patterns. Aged hides, left for 24-36 hours, produced disconnected odor pools that challenged even experienced teams. One hide in a hay field, placed nowhere near any landmark, forced dogs to use pure scenting ability rather than visual triangulation.

By week's end, handlers learned to track coverage areas while reading airflow patterns, leaving their dogs free to locate odor.

Key Topics:

• Crystal's Six C's Framework (03:33)
• The Full Frontal Demonstration (15:44)
• Defining “Intentional Handling” (18:06)
• Handler Movement Restrictions Exercise (30:36)
• Aged Hides and Disconnected Odor Pools (39:23)
• Hay Field Hide Challenge (45:11)
• Final Takeaways on Intention and Gratitude (49:24)

Resources:

• Intentional Handling (image mentioned in episode)

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at

What to listen for:

“We’re always inspired by the students and all the hard work that goes on. It blows my mind every single year.”

Today, our hosts, Robin Greubel, Stacy Barnett, and Crystal Wing, reflect on their recent experience at Distraction Camp 2025, where handlers and dogs from across the country gathered on Robin's Iowa farm to build deeper relationships through the chaos of real-world distractions.

This year's breakthrough came from an unexpected source: cats. The rallying cry “I like cats” (a Crystal original) turned into a reminder to not push your dog to engage but instead allow them to choose connection. When one handler kept insisting her dog play while the dog clearly felt overwhelmed, Crystal asked about her cats. As the handler described her Norwegian cat, her dog—suddenly ignored—began seeking attention, eventually jumping up with a playful “boop” as if to say, “Hey, I'm here too!”

Sometimes we need to step back and let our dogs actively choose us, rather than desperately pursuing their attention. Like cats, we can be interesting without being overly available, which means creating pull instead of push in our relationships.

Throughout the week, handlers learned to advocate fiercely for their dogs, making training decisions based on what each individual needed rather than following a one-size-fits-all approach. Students chose different starting positions, modified exercises, and even sat out searches when their dogs weren't ready—something rarely seen at training seminars.

The diversity was something else: Cavalier King Charles Spaniels worked alongside Chesapeakes and Pomeranians, each requiring different approaches. One handler discovered her dog's love of bubbles could replace his obsession with "summer snow" (cottonwood fluff). In other words, a distraction was turned into a powerful reinforcer. Another handler learned to read her sensitive dog's signals through a ball-carrying ritual that communicated “I feel safe now.”

By week's end, the transformation was visible in both species. As one student suggested, they should rename it “Relationship Camp,” because when the handler-dog connection is strong, it’s easy to conquer distractions!

Key Topics:

• The “I Like Cats” Philosophy: Creating Pull vs. Push (04:04)
• Student Advocacy: Learning to Make Training Decisions (23:50)
• Individual Approaches for Different Breeds and Personalities (29:37)
• Building Confidence Through Safe Spaces (34:39)
• Creative Reinforcement: What Does Your Dog Love? (37:24)
• Camp Logistics and Amazing Support Staff (43:45)
• Key Takeaways (44:30)

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

“I don’t just pet them, I go, ‘this is why you train the way you train, remember that’”

Today, two-thirds of the Dames of Detection, Stacy Barnett and Crystal Wing, welcome back obedience trainer Petra Ford to talk about why she believes in a “you do you” approach to dog training.

When her dog Zesty dropped eye contact during their first championship run, instead of demanding compliance, Petra simply said, "You do you,” acknowledging that forcing the moment would only add pressure to an already exhausted dog. This mindset shift from control to partnership transformed what could have been a frustrated correction into a moment of trust.

Petra's approach challenges conventional wisdom at every turn. While others proof their dogs by setting them up to fail, she builds confidence by making her dogs right. When Zesty struggled with imperfect fronts just weeks before nationals, instead of drilling precision, Petra threw parties for effort. "Close enough, here's a cookie" became her mantra because she understood that confidence creates precision, not the other way around.

This path hasn't been easy. Training in isolation, facing constant scrutiny, Petra has walked the lonely road of positive reinforcement in a sport increasingly dominated by punishment. But her results speak louder than critics: three different dogs, multiple championships, all trained through partnership rather than dominance.

Petra encourages trainers to ask themselves, "Would I want to be my own teammate?" She treats her dogs as partners, not tools—reading their communication, respecting their limits, and celebrating their individuality. When the pressure mounts and 130 dogs compete for 20 spots, she doesn't add stress. Instead, she becomes her dog's safe space.

Trust, not force. Not "do it my way," but simply: "you do you."

Key Topics:

• Mental Management Under Championship Pressure (01:40)
• The "You Do You" Philosophy in Action (10:00)
• Building Confidence vs. Creating Pressure (16:31)
• Training Two Opposite Dogs Successfully (23:09)
• Walking the Path Less Traveled Alone (26:02)
• About Petra’s Podcast and Other Resources (40:14)
• Petra’s Message to the Next Generation of Dog Trainers (47:38)

Resources:

• Petra Ford on FENZI
• Petra Ford on Facebook
• Petra’s podcast, Canine Connection

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

"I care about my dog's emotional state, how they're feeling, and how confident they are. And I work on that a lot."

Two-thirds of the Dames of Detection, Stacy Barnett and Crystal Wing, sit down with obedience trainer Petra Ford, who unpacks the importance of seeing dogs as individuals, not assumptions!

Real progress, she says, starts when you stop correcting and start connecting.

Petra shares how letting go of labels like “nervous” transformed her relationship with her dog Zeal—and how trainers often project past experiences onto new dogs without realizing it. She encourages slowing down and objectively observing, not assuming. Each dog deserves to be seen for who they are, not who came before them.

Through her work with a neurologically atypical dog, Petra developed calming strategies rooted in deep pressure, similar to techniques used for autistic children. These evolved into arousal “thermostat” cues that help her dogs self-regulate and perform with clarity and joy.

Petra’s training is driven by curiosity and persistence. She doesn’t rely on recipes—she adapts, explores, and adjusts until the dog understands. Whether teaching a front or building confidence under ring pressure, her dogs learn through games, not grind. They don’t just perform on command—they actually want to succeed, themselves.

At the core of Petra’s philosophy is respect: for the dog’s emotional state, for their individuality, and for the bond they share. Titles may come, but the real reward is the connection.

Because in the end, as Petra reminds us, training isn’t about forcing the dog to meet our goals. The best trainers don’t mold the dog to fit the plan—they mold the plan to fit the dog.

Key Topics:

• Reframing "Nervous" Dogs and Letting Go of Labels (06:46)
• Using Deep Pressure for Emotional Regulation (14:21)
• Teaching Arousal Cues and Emotional Balance (16:58)
• Fitness, Recovery, and Mental Breaks (21:58)
• The Art of Adapting Your Training Strategy to the Dog (33:07)
• Why Listening to the Dog Matters Most (36:21)
• Creating Joy in Precision: Obedience as Play (41:10)
• Working Through Pressure, Not Against It (42:57)
• From Zero Confidence to Mental Mastery (49:45)

Resources:

• Petra Ford on FENZI
• Petra Ford on Facebook
• Jane Savoie - It's Not Just About the Ribbons: It's About Enriching Riding (and Life) with a Winning Attitude (affiliate link)

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

“You’re putting so much pressure on yourself, and that’s impacting your dog.”

Today, our hosts Robin Greubel, Stacy Barnett, and Crystal Wing chat about what they’ve been up to lately, including their recent experience at the Muscatatuck Open, a high-level canine detection seminar known for its complex scent theory drills and immersive training.

They discuss how the seminar’s intense setups—with full-body donor work, long-term odor problems, and unique hide placements—challenged both handlers and dogs in ways that left a lasting impact.

Robin juggled certification tests and a 10-week-old Labrador while Crystal flew straight from early retirement into the dog training world’s version of a dream tour!

The Dames of Detection reflect on the Muscatatuck seminar: a high-level, all-inclusive training camp that delivered not just technically, but mentally and emotionally, as well.

Muscatatuck was a series of complex challenges—from scent voids and convergence hides to managing large source odors. It was, as one student put it, transformational.

Crystal, still raw from leaving her teaching career, shares how her pressure-sensitive dog Radish mirrored her inner state, teaching her the value of emotional regulation in handling. Stacy, working a freshly postpartum dog, found reassurance in her dog’s ability to locate a full-body aid, critical for live-find dogs deployed in unpredictable search-and-rescue scenarios.

Key Topics:

• Postpartum Puppy Drama & Emergency Care (04:36)
• General Impressions of Muscatatuck (10:15)
• Using Full Body Donors to Train Live-Find Dogs (22:30)
• Muscatatuck’s Multi-Day Scent Theory Challenges (25:34)
• Favorite “Aha” Moments from Instructors & Students (32:19)
• Competitive Searches, Training on Burned Fields, and Real-World Aids (43:43)

Resources:

• Save the Date for K9Sensus @MUTC 2026 -- May 28-Jun 1, 2026
• Suncoast Forensics
• Link to the Study about human scent
• Episodes featuring Lauryn DeGreeff
• Distraction Camp Episodes

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

Robin Greubel and Crystal Wing return with the brilliant Katylynn Sloan for part two of their conversation on the intersection between chemistry and K9 detection!

“Train with as much variety as often as you can, in the weirdest of circumstances you can possibly get to, with as many groups and as many people as you can.”

Katylynn dives into one of the most misunderstood topics in the detection world: training aids. She breaks down why the term “pseudo” is falling out of favor, replaced by “alternative training aids,” and classifies them into four types: dilution, absorption, mimic, and vigilance. Each has its pros and pitfalls. Mimics, for instance, rely on human interpretation of what’s important for a dog to smell—sometimes right, sometimes not. And vigilance aids? They’re about maintaining search behavior, not the odor itself.

Katylynn also emphasizes the importance of language. As a member of standards boards like ASB and OSAC, she helps shape definitions so handlers, trainers, and scientists are all speaking the same language in courtrooms and classrooms alike. It’s not just about what you know, but how clearly you can explain it. Her advice to aspiring canine scientists? Master problem-solving, communication, and the humility to say, “I don’t know.”

She also touches on the challenges of HRD training, the evolving definitions of “real” odor, and how even “duh” science needs to be written down. Her message to handlers? Train broadly. Generalization is key. Get variety in odors, people, places, and aids—because you never know what the real world will throw at your dog.

Dogs are really good. But they’re even better when guided by thoughtful, curious humans willing to adapt, collaborate, and learn. Katylynn’s passion isn’t just informative—it’s contagious.

Key Topics:

• Revising Standards and Defining "Real" Odor (0:59)
• Introduction to Alternative Training Aids (03:27)
• Mimics and Human Interpretation in Training Aids (07:30)
• Applying Dilution/Absorption Concepts to HRD (15:14)
• Public Comment Process and Impact on Standards (17:18)
• Skills and Traits for Aspiring K9 Scientists (22:53)
• Final Takeaways: Variety, Generalization, and Collaboration (39:52)

Resources:

• The manipulation of odor availability of training aids used in detection canine training
• AAFS Academy Standards Board
• Lindsay Waldrop's Lab

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

“The dogs are so good at what they do, it’s brain-boggling.”

Today, 2/3 of our hosts, Robin Greubel and Crystal Wing, welcome Katylynn Sloan, a chemist with the U.S. Secret Service, to explore the eye-opening intersection of science and canine detection work.

With a PhD in chemistry and years in explosives research, Katylynn brings a fresh lens to how odor behaves, how dogs detect it, and why context matters. She explains how high vapor pressure substances like nitroglycerin contaminate everything they touch, and why containment protocols must evolve.

From calibrating training aids to understanding the unexpected behavior of odor in vehicles, Katylynn stresses the importance of operational realism. Dogs, she explains, learn expectations. If training doesn’t reflect real-world scenarios—like suicide vests or buried explosives—dogs might miss critical cues. She calls for more collaborative studies in generalization, where the difference in one chemical compound might be enough for a dog to disregard an otherwise familiar substance.

Katylynn’s insights aren't just academic—they’re actionable. She champions “train how you operate,” emphasizes the need for diverse training aids, and highlights the gaps in disciplines like HRD, narcotics, and electronics detection. Most importantly, she reminds us: dogs are really good. But it’s the handlers—those who know their dog’s tail twitch or sniff shift means something—that bring science to life.

Science and scent don’t compete. They collaborate. And as Katylynn shows, better understanding leads to smarter training and safer communities. Tune in next time for part two of this fascinating conversation with Katylynn!

Key Topics:

• Katylynn Sloan’s Career Journey (0:01:25)
• Changes to the Explosive Standard (0:08:17)
• What Handlers Need to Know About Training Aids with High Vapor Pressure (0:14:15)
• Areas in K9 Detection That Warrant Further Research (0:34:15)
• “Train How You Operate” (0:50:01)
• Most Common Handler Misconceptions About How Dogs Detect Odors (0:57:50)

Resources:

• The manipulation of odor availability of training aids used in detection canine training
• AAFS Academy Standards Board
• Lindsay Waldrop's Lab

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com