Be scared and do it anyway

Creating belonging in the unknown

When leadership demands you build what doesn't exist

This conversation with Marne Fechner, CEO of AusCycling, speaks to one of leadership's fundamental truths: it meets you exactly where you are, and then it doesn't leave you where it found you.

It will reveal who you are and then ask you to choose who it is you wish to become.

Eighteen months into one of the biggest leadership challenges in Australian sport, Marne Fechner faced this uncomfortable truth about herself.

"Be scared and do it anyway. Be underqualified and get in the room anyway."

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In this episode of "In the Arena," coach and author Cody Royle explores what might be the greatest irony in leadership: those of us who believe deeply in coaching often refuse to be coached ourselves.

Having spent decades in leadership positions, I've experienced firsthand that moment when "the weight of responsibility sits heavy on your chest before your feet even touch the floor." It's the silent experience of leaders everywhere, and it reveals our profound contradiction.

Cody shares the deeply personal origins of his powerful book "Tough Stuff" – born from his own pain after losing a player to suicide and finding no resources to help navigate that trauma as a leader. "I went looking for things that could help me with that and found nothing," he told me.

Our conversation challenges the mythology we've constructed around leadership that equates self-sufficiency with strength. The true courage isn't found in going it alone—it's found in the vulnerability of acknowledging we don't have all the answers.

As Cody wisely notes, "Leadership is an exchange of humanity... it's supposed to be connective and it's supposed to be a shared weight." Join us as we explore why having "A Second Set of Eyes" isn't merely support – it's an acknowledgment that our job isn't to have all the answers but to create spaces where better questions can flourish.

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Neil Balme is one of those people that you immediately feel good about. Charismatic with a big presence, quick and eager to find humour even in the most challenging situations, disarmingly intelligent in the most humble of ways. He cannot help but draw people to him, but somehow he stays fully present with them with wonderful generosity and decency. Yet, as impactful as this is, what makes Neil Balme special is his wonderful capacity to make you feel good about you.

We explore the "multiplier effect" that Balme has cultivated throughout his remarkable career – where collective success exponentially exceeds individual contributions, and where genuine care creates championship cultures.

As Neil simply puts it: "There's nothing else - it's only people helping each other."

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I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Nick Stone, whose journey from AFL journeyman to founder of Bluestone Lane, America's fastest-growing premium café brand, exemplifies resilience and authentic leadership.

Nick played just 20 games across Collingwood, Hawthorn and St. Kilda over six years, fighting for his career with each one-year contract. What struck me most was how Nick never allowed football to consume his identity, even while giving it everything he had. When his playing career ended—the same day he completed his Monash University degree—Nick embraced this transition as an opportunity rather than dwelling on what might have been.

In our conversation, Nick shared how this experience shaped his approach to business and leadership. His philosophy of "unlocking versus extracting" potential and building trust through transparent feedback proved crucial when Bluestone Lane lost 87% of its revenue during COVID-19.

Nick's story reminds us that leadership isn't about having all the answers, but about remaining genuinely curious and comfortable with the questions. His ability to balance seemingly opposing qualities—being data-driven while prioritising human connection, maintaining high standards while creating space for vulnerability—offers valuable lessons for anyone navigating leadership challenges.

Join us for this thought-provoking discussion about finding your authentic self beyond your professional role, the power of embracing feedback, and the continuous journey of personal growth.

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"If you are not genuine with people, you won't get anything. You won't get productivity, won't get ideas, you won't get innovation, and you won't get a safe building site." - Joe Barr

When Joe Barr became CEO of John Holland, he made a decision that would define his leadership journey: to embrace what he didn't know.

With little experience in rail and infrastructure, Joe found himself leading one of Australia's largest construction companies.

Rather than feigning expertise, he chose authenticity.

This, in itself, is an easy choice.

Most CEOs would state this intention when taking up their position. Few, however, understand what it truly asks of them, remembering that people do not experience our intentions; they experience our behaviours.

Authenticity is an outcome and emerges only through vulnerability, which itself requires genuine bravery.

In this case, the vulnerability of waking up to many consequences of leading multi-billion-dollar projects and thousands of employees.

The discomfort of ‘not knowing’ marks the place where leadership is most needed.

This is a wonderful conversation.

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Come to Play

"Just be a good person, Cameron."

I have put myself back 'In the Arena', this time on the other side of the podcast desk.

Soon, I found myself having a conversation I had never had.

This is not a coincidence. My inquisitor is Andrew Horsfield, who is well experienced in drawing out the conversation we need to have. He has his own podcast, the wonderfully named "The Messy Middle." He is thoughtful, generous, and courageous, and this conversation would come with these expectations.

"Let's make this good", was the clear understanding I had after chatting through the prospect of him hosting me on my podcast.

Andrew knows there is little value in the 'known/spoken' dialogue that dominates most of our conversations, but offers nothing by way of solution to the challenges leaders face. We quickly move into the 'known/unspoken' that leaders need to have, mostly avoid, but we are are pleased when we do, and over time, a place I have been prepared to go, as have many of the guests 'In the Arena'.

But there is another level it can go, and we did.

A new conversation, joining of dots, questioning of beliefs, challenging of ideas, minds ticking, knowing that it would be recorded and offered to the world with all of its uncertainty.

These are the best conversations.

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Hawthorn Football Club President Andy Gowers’ leadership beliefs do not reveal themselves through grand declarations or certainties but through a willingness to embrace complexity.

It is an effort to find connection where others might see only division.

"The feedback I got when I was considering running for the board was confronting. Some people thought I'd be wasting my time. Others warned me it would be the hardest thing I've ever done."

He understood the full weight of leadership would soon settle onto his shoulders. His eyes were wide open, and if they weren’t, they soon would be, such were the cautionary tales from those who understood the complexity of what lay ahead for this storied football club, some of whom had travelled the path before, as well as those who cared for Andy.

"But I couldn't walk away. This club gave me so much. When it needed someone to step up, I felt a responsibility to give back."

This is a very generous podcast, with a very generous and humble leader.

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"You Can't Stop the Waves, But You Can Learn How to Surf"

I've used this Jon Kabat-Zinn quote countless times in my presentations, conversations and keynotes with leaders, with an image of Layne Beachley, seven-time world champion surfer.

It is a wonderful quote and a beautiful image of an athlete in their element.

I understand enough about Layne’s story to know that both the element itself, the surf, and life when she isn’t in her element, have been deeply challenging.

Yes, her courage in competition was legendary. But it's a different kind of bravery she demonstrates now - the willingness to cross that bridge of vulnerability. The truth is clear: there's no authenticity without vulnerability, and no vulnerability without courage.

There are people you meet, and you feel good about them. Then there are people you meet, and you feel good about you. Layne Beachley is the latter. From the moment we sat down to talk, she created a space where sharing her story whilst showing a deep interest in mine and those in the room, felt natural, even necessary. It's a rare gift - making others feel good about themselves through genuine care rather than convenience.

The Kabat-Zinn quote speaks to something fundamental about leadership - that we can't control every challenge that comes our way, but we can develop the wisdom to navigate them. While the metaphor has always resonated, Layne Beachley's story brings its meaning to life.

"I'm a helper, not a healer," she says - a distinction that crystallises something profound about leadership.

"No one sees the shit you go through," she shares, "they just see the outcome and think it was easy." Behind those seven world titles lies a story that speaks to anyone who's found themselves in the arena, facing challenges beyond their perceived capacity to cope.

Her journey illuminates the path - winning her first world title from a place of love, then five driven by fear, before returning to love for her seventh and final championship. After her sixth consecutive title, her body said 'enough' through adrenal fatigue and exhaustion. Yet still she pushed: "Let's do this again, let's keep going." It took a neck injury and MRI results to force a reckoning.

Then comes the deeper truth: "I had a massive fear of rejection from being told I was adopted as an eight-year-old. The story I'd wrapped around that was that I'm worthless, I'm undeserving of love, and I must win to be worthy of love."

These days, Layne talks about her "dream team" - that small group of trusted people who help her stay aligned with her truth. "If I'm encountering challenge from either of them, then I know there's something that needs to change," she explains. "But if it comes from someone I've never known and will never speak to, they're entitled to their opinion, and I'm entitled to ignore it."

Her approach to sharing wisdom is illuminating: "I aim to serve. I aim to shine a light. I don't aim to tell or preach." She creates that same space of care she offers others - where authentic connection becomes possible because someone has been brave enough to go first.

The metaphor of surfing carries a truth for all leaders: you can't stop the waves - those challenges and moments of doubt will come. But you can learn how to surf them.

Layne Beachley shows that our greatest impact often comes not from having all the answers, but from sharing our struggles with generosity and hope. In choosing to be a helper rather than a healer, she demonstrates what authentic leadership looks like - creating space for others to find their own path while continuing to learn and grow ourselves.

This is what a relationship of care looks like. It's what leadership at its best can be.