In this powerful episode of Hard & Holy, Cassandra sits down with friend, prayer warrior, and fellow Denver Seminary student Cheryl Luke to talk about the holy tension of knowing when it’s time to go. Whether it's stepping away from a church, job, ministry, or relationship, discerning when to leave is never easy but it can be holy.

With over 45 years in ministry, Cheryl shares her personal journey of leaving a beloved church community after 30 years of faithful service. She unpacks the emotional complexity of that decision, the grief and clarity it brought, and how to leave well—with integrity, love, and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Cheryl Luke is a speaker, coach, podcast host, and seminary student pursuing her Master of Arts in Biblical and Theological Studies. She’s the visionary behind The Mosaic Life, a nonprofit equipping leaders to live with intention and purpose. With decades of leadership experience, including her role as National Director for Cultural Communities with Celebrate Recovery, Cheryl is known for her ability to foster community, create space for healing, and empower people—especially people of color—through recovery and restoration.

Together, Cassandra and Cheryl discuss:

• How to discern when God is calling you to leave a space that once felt like home
• The difference between leaving with bitterness and leaving with blessing
• Why obedience to the Holy Spirit sometimes looks like disappointing people
• How to care for relationships and community even in your leaving
• What Cheryl wishes more leaders understood about longevity and surrender
• A prayer for those standing at the edge of transition, longing for courage and clarity

This episode is a companion for anyone wrestling with what’s next and wondering if it’s okay to let go.

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Resources & Links:
Learn more about Cheryl Luke and The Mosaic Life: themosaiclife.org
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Follow Cassandra on Instagram: @cassandralspeer
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In this gripping episode of Hard & Holy, bestselling author and speaker Mary Marantz joins Cass for a vulnerable conversation about what it means to feel underestimated—by others, by life, and even by yourself.

Mary is the first in her immediate family to go to college, a Yale Law School graduate, and the host of The Mary Marantz Show, where she shares powerful stories of grit, grace, and gospel truth.

Drawing from her newest book, Underestimated: The Surprisingly Simple Shift to Quit Playing Small, Name the Fear, and Move Forward Anyway, Mary shares what it feels like to be the girl in the red cape, running from the big bad wolf of fear, survival mode, and burnout.

They talk about the invisible rulebook everyone else seems to have, the ache of not measuring up, and the unexpected freedom that comes when you finally stop trying to prove your worth and start living from it instead.

If you’ve ever felt underestimated—even by yourself—or caught in a cycle of self-sabotage you can’t quite name —this episode is for you.

Explore more from Mary:

NameTheFear.com
Archive Your Old Story: ArchiverQuiz.com
Which Mary Marantz Message is Yours?
Follow Mary on social media @marymarantz
Order Underestimated wherever books are sold

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In this heartfelt episode of Hard & Holy, Cass sits down with Cleere Reeves, special needs mother, entrepreneur, host of Let's Be Cleere podcast, and author of Revive: Declarations of God's Truth To Renew Your Spirit.

They dive into a rich conversation about the beauty and burden of caregiving, the loneliness that can come with ministry and motherhood, and the intentionality it takes to both give and receive grace. Cleere shares what led her to write Revive, and the ways declaring truth has changed how she walks through hard seasons.

This episode will speak to anyone who’s ever struggled to feel seen, known, or supported—especially in seasons that feel overlooked or misunderstood.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Navigating motherhood, ministry, and entrepreneurship with honesty and faith
• Cleere’s journey as a special needs mother and how it shapes her spiritual life
• Why receiving grace can be harder than offering it
• The purpose behind Revive and how declaring God’s truth brings renewal
• The deep longing for community, safety, and belonging
• Trusting God in the detours you never saw coming

This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered whether your unseen faithfulness matters, wrestled with receiving grace, or longed to feel less alone in your season.

• Get her book Revive: Declarations of God’s Truth To Renew Your Spirit → https://cleerereeves.com/revive

• Visit her website → https://cleerereeves.com

• Follow her on Instagram → @cleere.reeves

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This one’s tender. It’s personal. And it’s for anyone who’s ever wondered if God still sees them in the unraveling.

In this episode, I open up about a season of hidden pain, slow healing, and the surprising ways God reminded me I was still being held—even when hope felt fragile. If you’re walking through something hard, if you’re tired of pretending you’re okay, or if you need a reminder that your wounds don’t disqualify you, this one’s for you.

As we enter Holy Week, I also talk about the tension of Good Friday: the ache of a day that doesn’t feel “good” when you're in the middle of your own grief, and what it means to live in that space between pain and resurrection. I end with a prayer for those still waiting... and share a major announcement I’ve been holding close.

• You’re allowed to be both wounded and still witnessing.

• Healing isn’t always visible but it’s still holy.

• God often speaks through the small and sacred.

• Your scars are not the end of your story.

• Good Friday reminds us: even when it doesn’t feel good, God is still working.

• Resurrection is coming, even if you’re not there yet.

Watch Britt & Cass on Good Morning America: https://youtu.be/Ycv3w6_tT54?si=5fK6mWJpj5PGJReb

Order Ready As You Are: https://a.co/d/e99yLm4

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In this eye-opening episode of Hard and Holy, Cass sits down with Dr. Camden Morgante, licensed psychologist and author of Recovering from Purity Culture, to explore the lingering wounds of religious sexual shame and how we begin to heal.

Together, we unpack:

• The “flipped switch” myth and the “sexual prosperity gospel”
• How purity culture often leads to sexual dysfunction and disconnection in marriage
• The connection between modesty culture and rape culture
• How purity culture exacerbates shame for survivors of sexual abuse
• The importance of teaching values-based sex education over rigid rules
• What balanced parenting after purity culture can look like
• Why reclaiming your worth is not rebellion but a return to truth
• Actionable insights to process your own story and rebuild a healthy, faith-filled sexual ethic

Dr. Camden also shares the powerful symbolism behind her book cover: a wilting rose beside a blooming one, as a visual of worth reclaimed and dignity restored. If you’re curious about how to develop a healthier, more holistic view of sexuality, one rooted in Biblical values rather than shame this episode is for you. Whether you grew up immersed in purity culture or are just beginning to untangle its effects, this conversation is filled with truth, clarity, and hope for your healing journey.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussions of sexual trauma, purity culture, and religious sexual shame. Please listen with care and take space if needed.

Buy the Book:
Recovering from Purity Culture by Dr. Camden Morgante

Connect with Dr. Camden:
Website: www.drcamden.com
Instagram: @drcamden
Threads: @drcamden

In this episode of Hard and Holy, Cassandra sits down with her seminary sister and bestselling author, Tori Hope Petersen, to talk about her latest book, Breaking the Patterns That Break You: Healing from the Pain of Your Past and Finding Real Hope That Lasts.

Tori shares her powerful story of surviving the foster care system, abuse, and instability and how God met her in the middle of the mess. Together, they explore how healing can become an act of worship, what it means to say yes to God when you feel unready, and how personal stories can become a source of strength and service.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the pain of your past or wondered whether God can bring good from your brokenness, this conversation will speak straight to your soul.

In this episode, we cover:

• The heart behind Breaking the Patterns That Break You
• Tori’s journey through foster care, abuse, and homelessness
• What it looks like to find healing through faith, community, and mentorship
• How to serve and lead even when you feel unprepared or unqualified
• Why your story matters and how God can use it to bring hope to others
• A tender prayer for those still in the thick of their healing journey

🌐 Website: cassandralspeer.com
📱 Instagram: @cassandralspeer

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Thanks for being here and remember, healing is holy work.

For centuries, women have served in ministry, yet their path to leadership has often been shaped more by cultural shifts than by biblical mandates.

In this episode of Hard & Holy, Cass sits down with historian and bestselling author Dr. Beth Allison Barr to discuss her newest book, Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman’s Path to Ministry.

Dr. Barr unpacks how the role of the pastor’s wife became a culturally defined position, rather than a biblical or historical necessity. She explores how marriage became the primary avenue for women in ministry, replacing ordination as the traditional pathway.

With her deep knowledge of church history, Dr. Barr highlights the long tradition of women leading, teaching, and preaching in the early church and medieval Christianity, offering compelling evidence that challenges common assumptions.

Cass and Dr. Barr also discuss how expectations for pastor’s wives differ across denominations and racial contexts, the challenges women face in church leadership today, and the impact of limiting women’s roles in ministry.

Along the way, they also share their mutual love for Star Wars, because sometimes church structures feel a little too much like Empire vs. Rebellion.

• How marriage became the primary path to ministry for women instead of ordination
• The historical evidence of women in leadership roles in the early church and medieval Christianity
• How the expectations placed on pastor’s wives vary across different denominations and racial contexts
• The personal cost for women called to ministry who do not fit the traditional mold
• Why examining church history strengthens, rather than undermines, biblical faithfulness

If you’ve ever questioned why women in ministry are often defined by their marriages rather than their callings, or if you want to better understand the historical roots of these expectations, this episode is for you.

Resources and Connect:

Order Dr. Beth Allison Barr’s new book: Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman’s Path to Ministry Order

Connect with Cass on Instagram: @cassandralspeer

Connect with Dr. Beth Allison Barr on Instagram: @bethallisonbarr

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Life doesn’t always wrap up neatly with a bow. Sometimes, we find ourselves in the middle of a story that feels unfinished, waiting on answers, longing for resolution, and wondering where God is in the tension.

In this episode of Hard & Holy, I’m inviting you into the reality of worshiping in the middle—before the breakthrough, before the clarity, before we see how it all works out.

We’ll look at 2 Chronicles 20 and how Jehoshaphat and the Israelites didn’t wait for victory to worship—they worshiped into the victory. We’ll also talk about what modern worship can look like in our everyday lives, beyond just Sunday mornings. And somewhere in the middle of it all, I’ll share a little bit about my Pawpaw’s church and how an old hymn reminded me that our victory has never been about the outcome—it’s always been about Jesus.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in between hope and hardship, this one’s for you.

Key Takeaways:

• Worship isn’t just about what happens in church—it’s about how we respond to God in the waiting.
• Hope and hardship aren’t mutually exclusive. We can grieve and trust, wrestle and believe.
• If our worship is rooted in results, we’re not worshiping God—we’re worshiping the outcome.
• God is present in the middle, and even here, we are held.

Let’s keep this conversation going! You can find me on Instagram @cassandralspeer—I’d love to hear how God is meeting you in the middle of your own story.

If this episode encouraged you, would you take a second to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend? It helps more than you know, and it means the world to me.

Until next time, keep holding onto hope—even when it’s hard.