In this powerful episode of Hard & Holy, Cassandra sits down with friend, prayer warrior, and fellow Denver Seminary student Cheryl Luke to talk about the holy tension of knowing when it’s time to go. Whether it's stepping away from a church, job, ministry, or relationship, discerning when to leave is never easy but it can be holy.

With over 45 years in ministry, Cheryl shares her personal journey of leaving a beloved church community after 30 years of faithful service. She unpacks the emotional complexity of that decision, the grief and clarity it brought, and how to leave well—with integrity, love, and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Cheryl Luke is a speaker, coach, podcast host, and seminary student pursuing her Master of Arts in Biblical and Theological Studies. She’s the visionary behind The Mosaic Life, a nonprofit equipping leaders to live with intention and purpose. With decades of leadership experience, including her role as National Director for Cultural Communities with Celebrate Recovery, Cheryl is known for her ability to foster community, create space for healing, and empower people—especially people of color—through recovery and restoration.

Together, Cassandra and Cheryl discuss:

• How to discern when God is calling you to leave a space that once felt like home
• The difference between leaving with bitterness and leaving with blessing
• Why obedience to the Holy Spirit sometimes looks like disappointing people
• How to care for relationships and community even in your leaving
• What Cheryl wishes more leaders understood about longevity and surrender
• A prayer for those standing at the edge of transition, longing for courage and clarity

This episode is a companion for anyone wrestling with what’s next and wondering if it’s okay to let go.

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Resources & Links:
Learn more about Cheryl Luke and The Mosaic Life: themosaiclife.org
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Follow Cassandra on Instagram: @cassandralspeer
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In this gripping episode of Hard & Holy, bestselling author and speaker Mary Marantz joins Cass for a vulnerable conversation about what it means to feel underestimated—by others, by life, and even by yourself.

Mary is the first in her immediate family to go to college, a Yale Law School graduate, and the host of The Mary Marantz Show, where she shares powerful stories of grit, grace, and gospel truth.

Drawing from her newest book, Underestimated: The Surprisingly Simple Shift to Quit Playing Small, Name the Fear, and Move Forward Anyway, Mary shares what it feels like to be the girl in the red cape, running from the big bad wolf of fear, survival mode, and burnout.

They talk about the invisible rulebook everyone else seems to have, the ache of not measuring up, and the unexpected freedom that comes when you finally stop trying to prove your worth and start living from it instead.

If you’ve ever felt underestimated—even by yourself—or caught in a cycle of self-sabotage you can’t quite name —this episode is for you.

Explore more from Mary:

NameTheFear.com
Archive Your Old Story: ArchiverQuiz.com
Which Mary Marantz Message is Yours?
Follow Mary on social media @marymarantz
Order Underestimated wherever books are sold

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In this heartfelt episode of Hard & Holy, Cass sits down with Cleere Reeves, special needs mother, entrepreneur, host of Let's Be Cleere podcast, and author of Revive: Declarations of God's Truth To Renew Your Spirit.

They dive into a rich conversation about the beauty and burden of caregiving, the loneliness that can come with ministry and motherhood, and the intentionality it takes to both give and receive grace. Cleere shares what led her to write Revive, and the ways declaring truth has changed how she walks through hard seasons.

This episode will speak to anyone who’s ever struggled to feel seen, known, or supported—especially in seasons that feel overlooked or misunderstood.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Navigating motherhood, ministry, and entrepreneurship with honesty and faith
• Cleere’s journey as a special needs mother and how it shapes her spiritual life
• Why receiving grace can be harder than offering it
• The purpose behind Revive and how declaring God’s truth brings renewal
• The deep longing for community, safety, and belonging
• Trusting God in the detours you never saw coming

This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered whether your unseen faithfulness matters, wrestled with receiving grace, or longed to feel less alone in your season.

• Get her book Revive: Declarations of God’s Truth To Renew Your Spirit → https://cleerereeves.com/revive

• Visit her website → https://cleerereeves.com

• Follow her on Instagram → @cleere.reeves

Loved this conversation?

Subscribe to Hard & Holy wherever you listen, and if the episode made you feel seen—share it with a friend.

Your ratings and reviews mean so much and help more women find these sacred conversations.