Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos)
Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa
Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor

• Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background
• Surveys audiences and writes research reports
• Has "front row seat" to industry transformation
• Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey

• Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals
• Covers multiple verticals including:
  • Training and skills
  • Compensation and salary
  • Technology use
  • Leadership perceptions
  • Strategy
• Tracks year-over-year progress
• Recent additions include AI and workforce training questions

• Major shift: Contact centers increasingly viewed as "strategic customer intelligence hubs" rather than cost centers
• Described as "customer intelligence and nervous system"
• No other department has closer customer proximity or more customer data
• C-suite now acknowledges value with direct data funnels informing executive decisions

• 72% believe AI will transform roles, not replace them
• Only ~25% think AI will lead to workforce reductions
• AI expected to handle "level one, rote, monotonous, repetitive work"
• Agents will focus on:
  • Complex needs and edge cases
  • Soft skills: empathy, communication, problem solving, critical thinking
• 90% of surveyed leaders believe humans necessary as AI overseers
• Gartner prediction: 40% of agentic AI projects will fail by 2027 (often due to neglecting human oversight)

• Agents increasingly viewed as:
  • Consultants
  • Solutions architects
  • Higher-tier problem solvers
  • "White glove service" providers
• Rising expectations due to AI support
• Agents becoming intelligence providers to C-suite
• More analytical roles: identifying trends, patterns, creating intelligent summaries

1. Customer resistance (top concern)
2. Data accuracy
3. Data privacy and security
4. Lack of proper AI governance

• In-office full time
• Hybrid
• Fully remote
• Models remain transitional and subject to change
• Increased scheduling flexibility critical for retention

• Traditional metrics: CSAT, utilization, average handle time
• New priority: Agent experience rising in importance
• Recognition that internal customer experience drives external customer experience

• Current CSAT surveys often lack nuance
• Can't distinguish between:
  • Poor agent performance vs. poor company policy
  • Single bad experience vs. overall satisfaction
• Need for more qualitative feedback mechanisms
• "Watermelon effect": High metrics but poor actual experience

• Significant jump from multi-channel to omni-channel implementation
• Growth in non-traditional channels:
  • Social media
  • SMS/text
  • Video
• Technology enabling unified customer history across channels

• Successful organizations treat contact centers as "valuable strategic sources of intelligence"
• Organizations not recognizing this value are "dropping the ball" and will "see the consequences"
• Contact centers serve as the "hub" and "nervous system" reaching everywhere in the organization
• When no one knows the answer, they turn to the contact center

• "If your agents aren't excited about AI, then you actually haven't communicated to them how enriching and transforming it could be"
• "Agents are increasingly going to play a role where they are the eyes and the ears... providing the intelligence back to the C-suite"
• Contact centers as "the strongest data... the hub... the nervous system that reaches in everywhere else"

Summary

In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers.

Takeaways

Contact centers are perceived as becoming simpler, but they are actually becoming more complex.
Sophistication in processes can lead to increased complexity.
There is a challenge in addressing the complexity of contact centers.
Many organizations are still reliant on outdated tools like Excel.
Using lead metrics can help prevent agent burnout.
Improving metrics can reduce friction with customers.
The conversation highlights the need for modernization in contact center operations.
Understanding complexity is crucial for effective management.
Agent burnout is a significant issue in the industry.
A shift in metrics is necessary for better outcomes.

Sound Bites

"Sophistication also brings complexity."
"We are still for the most part stuck in Excel."
"Lead metrics could stop agent burnout."

Live from Orlando at ICMI Expo

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolution of contact centers, the impact of CRM systems like Salesforce, and the role of AI in enhancing agent performance. They reflect on the historical context of CRM, the challenges faced by agents, and the future of customer service technology, particularly focusing on the Agent Force initiative. The discussion also touches on the sentiment within the Salesforce community and the potential for new competitors in the market.

Takeaways

Salesforce has become a dominant player in the CRM space.
The evolution of contact centers has been significant over the years.
AI can enhance agent performance rather than replace them.
Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective service.
The Agent Force initiative aims to improve agent capabilities.
There is a negative sentiment towards Salesforce in the contact center community.
The cost of building technology is decreasing, making competition more feasible.
AI's role in customer service is still evolving and needs to focus on agents.
Salesforce must communicate its value to agents to maintain loyalty.
The future of customer service technology is uncertain but full of potential.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context Setting
01:29 The Evolution of CRM and Contact Centers
06:05 Current Trends in Salesforce and AI
11:13 Agent Force and the Future of Customer Service
15:54 Prognosis for Salesforce and the Industry

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricate relationship between marketing and call center operations, particularly during high-demand periods like holidays. They share personal anecdotes about challenges faced in fulfilling customer orders due to marketing miscommunications and emphasize the importance of building strong relationships between marketing and contact center teams. The discussion highlights the need for effective communication, data sharing, and collaboration to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency.

Takeaways

The holiday season can create significant challenges in call center operations.
Marketing decisions can directly impact call center workload and customer satisfaction.
Building relationships with marketing teams is crucial for effective communication.
Data sharing between marketing and contact centers can improve customer service.
Understanding operational limitations is essential for marketing strategies.
Regular meetings between marketing and contact center teams can foster collaboration.
Customer feedback is valuable for shaping marketing strategies.
Effective communication can prevent misunderstandings and operational chaos.
A cooperative approach can lead to better resource allocation and planning.
Engaging with customers directly can provide insights that benefit marketing efforts.

Summary:
For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong?

Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can turn raw data into persuasive narratives that actually secure budget, influence the C-suite, and prove value.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why the "profit center" debate hasn't gone away—and probably won't.

• The crucial difference between value creation and revenue generation.

• How marketing gets credit (and budget) despite spending every dollar they touch.

• Why endless Excel spreadsheets put executives to sleep—and what to do instead.

• The art of translating metrics into stories that CFOs and CEOs actually care about.

• Practical steps for contact center leaders to elevate their influence in the boardroom.

Key Quotes:

• "The CFO decides what's a cost center and what's a revenue center. We are just bad at telling our story." – Amas

• "People don't remember your statistics. They remember your stories." – Bob

• "Marketing spends money all day, but they've convinced the world they're indispensable. We should learn from that." – Amas

Episode Highlights:

• (01:00) Revisiting the old debate: profit center vs. cost center.

• (02:30) Why marketing gets treated differently—and why service leaders should care.

• (04:30) The deadly sin of sending executives binders of metrics.

• (06:00) How to tell stories executives will remember—and fund.

• (09:00) Using customer stories to anchor your data.

• (11:30) Why your relationship with marketing and the CFO matters most.

• (12:45) Teaser: Amas & Bob will be recording LIVE at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, Oct 27–30.

Resources & Links:

• Amas's blog post: "Contact Centers Are Not Revenue Centers" [link]

• Learn more about the ICMI Contact Center Expo

We're back from summer break (okay, maybe fall break too) and diving straight into the mess where AI, customers, and reality collide. In this episode, Amas and Bob unpack the hype vs. the truth about AI in contact centers:

• Is AI replacing humans—or just making customers angrier?

• Why human agents are still the heart of service, even as bots sound more "human."

• How contact center leaders feel stuck—between CEOs chanting "AI, AI, AI" and customers who just want their problems solved.

• What the data really says about automation, agent workloads, and customer expectations.

• Practical advice for leaders: use AI to reduce after-call work, not replace human connection.

We also share personal summer highlights—Amas' trip to Italy with his son, Bob's perfect beach-and-donut days—and a fiery debate about tipping culture.

Finally, big news: The Contact Center Show is hitting the road! Catch us live at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando (October 27–30). We'll have guests, fresh perspectives, and maybe even say the things your CEO wishes you wouldn't.

• AI isn't the enemy. The problem is how it's rolled out—done to agents, not for them.

• Agents aren't disappearing. Industry headcount is actually growing, despite automation hype.

• Data is your weapon. Use it to show execs that customers can tell when a bot can handle it—and when they need a human.

• Customer trust is fragile. Overcomplicate service and they'll punish you with churn and complaints.

• Leadership focus must return to people. Coaching, development, and real support matter more than the next shiny tool.

• "I don't hear the C-suite anymore talking about our people as the difference. It's just AI, AI, AI." – Amas

• "It's not about reducing talk time. It's about reducing the after-call work so agents can get back to serving." – Bob

• "Adoption is failing in many companies because reps just ignore the tools. You're doing it to them, not for them." – Amas

• Register for ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando → https://www.icmi.com/contact-center-expo-conference

• Follow Amas on LinkedIn: @amastenumah

Want us to bring The Contact Center Show to your company, campus, or event? Reach out—we'll say the things you can't without getting fired.

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intersection of sports fandom and the business of contact centers, particularly focusing on business process outsourcing (BPO). They explore the reasons companies choose to outsource their customer service operations, the challenges involved, and the evolving landscape of the BPO industry. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding core competencies, cost savings, and the need for competent consultants in the BPO space.

Takeaways

The NBA Finals can evoke strong emotions and rivalries.
BPOs are third-party services handling customer interactions.
Cost savings is the primary reason for outsourcing.
Companies often outsource to focus on their core competencies.
Successful outsourcing requires understanding what to delegate.
BPOs can leverage scale and technology for efficiency.
Choosing the right outsourcing partner is crucial.
AI is changing the landscape of customer service.
Consultants with deep contact center experience are valuable.
The BPO industry is evolving to include more tech services.

Chapters

00:00 NBA Finals and Personal Rivalries
01:15 Understanding BPOs and Contact Centers
02:26 The Decision to Outsource
03:35 Implementing Outsourcing Strategies
06:25 The BPO Industry's Shift to AI
08:07 Core Competencies in Outsourcing
10:52 Final Thoughts on BPO and Customer Care