David Den Boer traces the origins of the EPM Summit to a pattern he kept seeing across projects. “Sometimes the error is not necessarily beginning in the project,” he tells us, “but in the way they selected the product.” Too often, he observed, finance teams were locked into technology decisions before fully understanding their requirements—or their alternatives.

That realization reshaped how he thought about impact. While Den Boer says he enjoys solving customer problems through implementations, he began to focus on “slower, moving bigger problems,” including gaps in thought leadership and how organizations evaluate EPM solutions in the first place. The Summit, he tells us, was designed to address that upstream decision-making moment.

He draws on experience hosting EPM-focused events beginning in 2009, after SAP acquired OutlookSoft. At large vendor conferences with “hundreds of products,” he explains, it was difficult for EPM practitioners to get focused answers, connect with peers, or evaluate options objectively. As legacy platforms declined, customers increasingly asked him where to go next—and how to choose wisely.

That question has only intensified with AI. Den Boer tells us finance teams are now being asked to rethink processes “from a first principles perspective.” Without that reset, he warns, organizations risk “just bolting on AI” to workflows that haven’t fundamentally changed in decades.

The EPM Summit reflects that conviction. Den Boer says he personally curates content to avoid “glossy marketing stuff,” relying instead on practitioners who have delivered dozens—or hundreds—of projects. Panels, hands-on product access, and difficult vendor questions are all designed to give finance leaders what they rarely get: clarity before commitment. In an era of expanding choice, the Summit is built around a simple idea—better decisions start earlier.

As the year comes to a close, we’re revisiting a conversation that feels newly relevant. This week, we’re re-releasing our CFO Thought Leader episode with Jonathan Carr, recorded three years ago—long before any exit was in view, but rich with insight into how he thinks about leadership, growth, and decision-making under uncertainty.

That mindset was shaped early. Just 18 months after finishing college, Carr was placed in charge of a major Oracle implementation at a Stryker manufacturing plant in Puerto Rico. He had never led systems work before. The advice from his division controller was simple and direct: “find the opportunities that either get you promoted or fired,” Carr tells us.

The six-month project forced him to work across manufacturing, IT, and finance to understand how transactions actually flowed through the plant. Carr describes the learning process as peeling back layers “like an onion,” where each answer revealed more complexity, he tells us. It was an early lesson in getting out of one’s comfort zone and doing work before feeling fully prepared.

That approach carried forward as Carr moved through FP&A, accounts receivable, and customer-facing roles, and later joined SurveyMonkey when the company was generating less than $100 million in revenue. There, he helped build finance capabilities, supported acquisitions, and participated in capital raises totaling nearly $1 billion, with less than $100 million in primary capital, Carr tells us.

Later, at Atlassian, Carr was part of the finance leadership team during the company’s transition from on-premise software to the cloud. The shift required conviction, transparency, and clear communication with employees and investors, even as near-term economics changed, Carr tells us.

In the episode we’re re-releasing today, you’ll hear Carr reflect on growth, influence, and adaptability. “I reserve the right to get smarter,” he tells us—a line that neatly captures how he has approached each chapter of his career, long before the outcomes were known.

As we re-release this conversation with CFO Karen Williams during the holiday week, we’re opening the episode with a short preface drawn from something she shared recently on LinkedIn. In a post about books that shaped her as a leader, Williams reflected on culture, bias, and the importance of staying open to different perspectives—ideas that echo throughout this episode and frame how she’s built her career.

Those themes weren’t always obvious early on.

Williams traces a formative lesson back to her move from a 20-person startup into Mars, where she says she “bombed at networking.” Accustomed to a small, family-style environment, she kept what she describes as a “head down, get on with it” mentality. She didn’t yet understand the importance of relationships and networks, she tells us, and after a couple of years, she left.

That experience reshaped how she approached her next chapter at American Express. The culture there was “very people focused, very relationship driven,” Williams tells us, but progress still came slowly at first. It took time to move from analyst to manager as she built credibility and learned how influence actually works inside large organizations. Once she reached that level, things accelerated quickly.

A structural gap gave her direct exposure to a divisional CFO, who became her sponsor and helped unlock three to four subsequent roles, Williams tells us. Over fifteen years, she held roughly nine roles at American Express—calling the experience her “Harvard School of training years.”

In the episode, listeners will also hear how Williams continued to stretch herself by moving out of finance into business leadership, leading strategy through disruption, and later stepping into CFO roles where unexpected challenges—like cleaning up a balance sheet—tested her early credibility.

It’s a conversation about learning, reflection, and how experience—especially the uncomfortable kind—shapes leadership over time.

Roy Hefer expected a quick coffee. Instead, a “30 minutes” introduction with a newly appointed Lumenis CEO stretched “more than three hours,” he tells us, as they talked through her plan to transform a flat-growth, cash-bleeding medical device company and “ultimately take it public,” he tells us.

That conversation marked a shift from theory to ownership. After five years at McKinsey—based out of Tel Aviv, but spending “most of my time abroad,” he tells us—Hefer realized he was “a doer,” he tells us. He loved delivering “an amazing model” and “a very sophisticated framework,” he tells us, but not walking away before execution.

At Lumenis, execution became the point. A supply-chain initiative aimed to cut costs by 30%, he tells us; the team “managed to shave, save more than 40% cost,” he tells us. As the company prepared for a NASDAQ IPO in 2014, he tells us, his CFO pulled him closer—and Hefer had what he calls an “aha moment” where he “fell in love with finance,” he tells us, seeing how finance shapes decisions across fundraising, M&A, and expansion, he tells us.

Years later, after a second IPO chapter at Hippo Insurance in 2021, he tells us, Hefer chose the CFO path at Perk. There, late 2022 fundraising forced a fork: accept “highly dilutive” capital or pivot toward profitability to become “default alive,” he tells us. For Hefer, that’s the job: frame options early, build trust “brick by brick,” he tells us, and let the best decision make itself.

Matthew Novick traces one of his earliest business lessons not to a boardroom, but to a furniture store in Portland, Maine. Growing up in his family’s business, he learned how to read credit reports, price products, and assess who was “credit worthy,” skills that showed him how decisions affect a business long before he ever closed a set of books, Novick tells us.

That operational grounding followed him into finance. Early roles at IBM and AOL put him on both the expense and revenue sides of the P&L, including sales operations and compensation design. Those experiences shaped his belief that finance is not just about counting dollars, but understanding what the numbers actually mean, he tells us. “If you don’t understand what goes into closing those books… you’re never actually going to understand your business,” he says.

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His path accelerated quickly. After leaving AOL, Novick joined Magnetic, where he became VP of Finance and then the company’s first CFO in his early 30s. Since then, he has moved through multiple CFO chapters across ad tech and data-driven businesses, refining how he partners with CEOs. That partnership, he explains, is central—so central that he once flew across the country to spend two days with a CEO before accepting a role, Novick tells us.

A defining strategic moment came at PlaceIQ, when the company received an unexpected inbound acquisition inquiry. Preparing to assess synergies, unit economics, and whether “one plus one really equals three” reshaped how he thinks about strategy and readiness, Novick tells us. Today, as CFO of TripleLift, that mindset carries forward—pairing operational fluency with disciplined decision-making in an increasingly complex, AI-influenced finance landscape.

At 19, working part-time in a bank branch while attending college, Ed Hagan made a simple recommendation: expand the branch. The idea was taken seriously enough that he was transferred to the bank holding company’s finance and accounting department, where he suddenly found himself helping with acquisitions, preparing board materials, and contributing to an IPO. The exposure was far greater than he expected at that age, Hagan tells us, and it sparked a curiosity that would shape his entire career.

That early experience with real-world complexity led him to KPMG—then Pete Marwick—because the firm audited the bank. There, he spent roughly 20 years, including a decade as partner, learning “every day” and taking on global finance transformation work. When the consulting arm later separated into BearingPoint, Hagan continued building capabilities, eventually moving to London to grow a financial services practice from just a few people to a couple hundred.

After 21 years in consulting, he felt ready for a different kind of problem-solving. He joined a private-equity and family-office environment, then built a fractional CFO and outsourcing practice that connected him with growth-stage founders. One of those clients—Satisfi Labs—would draw him back into the intersection of finance and technology.

Satisfi Labs, Hagan tells us, is an agent platform designed for live experiences like sports, entertainment, and tourism. The company blends proprietary technology with LLMs such as OpenAI and Gemini, packaging them into solutions that make “AI hireable.” Today, the platform supports about two-thirds of North American professional sports teams and continues expanding across venues, theme parks, museums, and tour operators.

At first, we wondered why Zane Rowe was once again leading us back to Continental Airlines. With notable CFO tenures at VMware and EMC—chapters rich with transformation—surely there were fresh stories to surface.

But as Rowe began tracing the logic behind flight profitability, route modeling, and data-rich decision making, the relevance snapped into focus. His Continental experience isn’t just a recurring anecdote; it’s the lens through which he still interprets complex systems today. That early foundation made this discussion every bit as insightful as our last—especially as he connected those lessons to Workday’s AI trajectory and the accelerating pace of strategic decision making.

“I spent a lot of time in the airlines in what we called flight profitability,” Rowe tells us. At Continental, he helped build systems to understand which routes truly created value when full planes were still losing money, he tells us. That work, grounded in heavy telemetry and EMC technology, showed him how finance could move from reporting results to reshaping the route portfolio, he tells us.

In his first conversation with CFO Thought Leader, Rowe walked through those early chapters—from revenue management at a post-bankruptcy airline to a bold sales pivot at Apple and multiple CFO roles in technology, he tells us. In this second interview, he returns to the same storyline but takes it one step further, drawing a direct line from that profitability model to today’s AI-driven world, he tells us.

Now, as Workday’s CFO, he describes AI as an equalizer that lets small teams run multiple forecasting models and ingest far more variables in cash projections than before, he tells us. He points to “Everyday AI,” a company-wide initiative, and a cross-functional AI leadership group that pushes common tools, responsible use, and regular check-ins on what is changing in the work itself, he tells us.

Rowe’s finance strategic moment this year is “recognizing the importance of investing more into AI”—organically and inorganically—because peers are not standing still and customers want those capabilities, he tells us. With a total addressable market “in the hundreds of billions of dollars” and revenue “much less than that,” he frames leadership now as deciding where to lean in hardest, he tells us.

In her second week as CFO, Cristina Kim sat with Octaura’s leadership team reviewing a three-year strategy and ambitious 2026 targets, she tells us. As the numbers appeared on the screen, her instinct was to do what she had done for nearly two decades: probe what might go wrong, stress-test assumptions, and look for what could break, she tells us. Mid-meeting, she experienced what she calls an “aha moment”—realizing she was no longer outside the story but inside it, responsible for helping the team achieve those goals, she tells us.

That shift caps a career built on breadth rather than a linear ladder. Cristina began in investment banking in Hong Kong before spending 17 years in JP Morgan’s strategic investments group across London and the United States, she tells us. There, she learned to sit at the center of technology innovation, translating between business needs, risk, and upside, and working closely with management teams and CFOs, she tells us. Over time, investing in Octaura and partnering with its leaders made her want to move from evaluating companies to helping build one, she tells us.

Today at Octaura—an electronic trading platform and data company focused on loans and CLOs, she tells us—Cristina is applying that investor muscle in new ways. She is building frameworks for resource allocation, pushing for more granular, week-to-week metrics, and exploring how AI-enabled forecasting and internal data tools can sharpen decisions, she tells us. The discipline remains, but now it is in service of writing the story from within, she tells us.