A blackout struck New York City and a large part of the U.S. northeast in 2003. It happened only two years after 9/11. How could we not first wonder if it was terrorism. I had been at work at the time. After waiting maybe an hour, we all walked down the stairs and went home. Phones worked for a while, so I called the woman I was dating and coordinated to meet at her place. I ended up hitch-hiking a ride there.

The people who gave me the ride were having a great time. In a big van, they were picking up people here and there, navigating intersections with no traffic lights. We all had a great time, which continued when I reached my girlfriend's place. Later I heard of people dancing around bonfires and so on.

For months afterward, when we saw someone we hadn't seen since the blackout, we asked each other's blackout experience. I soon noticed that nearly everyone enjoyed themselves.

At first I thought it odd, since we suspected terrorism at first. After a while, I realized technology wasn't the unalloyed good I had thought it was. I started telling friends I was thinking about taking time off from things that used power regularly. One person responded, "You know, orthodox Jews have been taking time off from technology every week for thousands of years."

Martin Doblmeier returns for a second conversation to talk about his latest movie, Sabbath, which explores the day of rest in culture. The movie explores several groups each of Protestants, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and secular communities. It covers history, stories, motivations, and many relevant viewpoints.

You'll hear me in the conversation considering how to manifest and explore this concept in my like. I predict you'll consider bringing more sabbath to your life. Since recording the conversation, I've been thinking about how to manifest some regular rest in my life, seeing if I can bring others in on it.

Whether you act or not, you'll appreciate how Martin's movie provokes introspection. How did most cultures lose this day of rest? At what cost did we lose it? Do we want to restore it?

• Watch Sabbath online
• Martin's site: Journey Films
• Upcoming screenings and events
• Educational materials, including many thought-provoking and conversation-provoking questions and discussion points

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Dave and I go back years, to when we both wrote columns at Inc. I'm surprised I didn't bring him on before. He helps entrepreneurs, leaders, and aspiring leaders develop social and emotional skills, as well as college students aspiring to internships.

We recorded now on the occasion of his new book, Get Over Yourself! How to Lead and Delegate Effectively for More Time, More Freedom, and More Success, on improving your skills working with others, like all his books. He shares stories of himself and clients, often personal, leading to practical advice.

Sustainability requires changing American and global culture, which requires entrepreneurship and leadership.

• Dave's page, which links to his books and how to book him for a one-on-one
• Apprentice

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I met Erica in a online meeting of academics who promote avoiding flying. A major perk for many academics is that universities pay for flying to academic conferences, for research, and for other academic reasons, of where there are many. In other words, they often fly for free. (As an aside, since academics learned about our environmental problems first, people flying free and often include many academics.)

I found her comments valid, including a criticism of something I said, so contacted her afterward and invited her to the podcast. I also think people who hold Nobel Prizes are more influential than those who don't, in general, and a goal for this podcast is to bring the most influential people.

The conversation was fun and a blast! She does more than research and promote less flying. She lived off-grid long before I started, for example, something we could bond on.

More than any actions, I found her tone and attitude engaging and infectious. She enjoys living more sustainably. Most of the world acts like each step of living more sustainably means more deprivation and sacrifice. What do you know, they haven't tried it. Erica has, and found joy and liberation as I did.

She is a role model. We can all enjoy sustainability as much as her and more than we enjoy life now, twisted up inside knowing we're hurting people (and wildlife). Enjoy our conversation. Join the club of living joyfully sustainably.

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