What if burnout wasn’t a personal failure, but a sign that something bigger at the system level needs to change? In this episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O’Sullivan sits down with Kelly Swingler, the renowned “burnoutologist” and founder of the Burnout Academy, to uncover the truth behind today’s burnout epidemic. With candour and compassion, Kelly challenges the norms that glorify stress and exhaustion, exploring why real burnout is so much more than long hours. It’s about broken systems, shame, and outdated definitions of success.

Together, Cathleen and Kelly dive into the emotional realities of burnout, breaking down stigma and sharing personal stories of their own experiences. You’ll discover why leaders are often the first to “burn the brightest and break first,” and how shifting our focus from individual fixes to systemic change is the real path to sustainable well-being at work. Filled with vulnerability, laughter, and bold truths, this episode offers both insight and a call-to-action: it’s time to stop treating burnout as a weakness and start building workplaces and lives where well-being isn’t just an afterthought.

Episode Timeline:

03:27 Introducing Kelly Swinger, the "burnoutologist".

07:29 Burnout is the debilitating result of chronic stress

14:10 Leaders often misinterpret feeling overwhelmed or struggling as incompetence

19:47 Burnout is a global issue often caused by toxic workplaces

25:48 Living an unhealthy lifestyle can't be offset by minimal healthy activities

32:48 Many avoid discussing mental health as workplace stress rises

33:45 Burnout is often masked by other conditions due to stigma

56:27 Workplace freedom and creativity could reduce toxicity

01:07:35 Stressed leaders repeat outdated patterns

01:13:08 Leaders should focus on self-awareness and personal values over profits

01:20:20 Self-care routines can't cure burnout without genuine presence

01:24:49 Self-awareness and inner work are ongoing, challenging but rewarding.

Key Takeaways:

• Burnout is not just chronic stress or exhaustion, it’s falling off the edge of your stress scale into a place that affects your whole life.

• Leaders and organisations must move beyond surface-level “well-being” fixes and tackle the root causes of systemic burnout.

• You can’t “self-care” your way out of burnout, lasting transformation requires stopping, reflecting, and doing the deep inner work.

ABOUT Kelly Swingler

Kelly is the Burnoutologist, empowering Leaders to Banish Burnout in the changing world of work for themselves and their people. She leads the world’s number one Burnout Academy, training in Burnout Awareness. Known for being a rebel and a rule-breaker, Kelly has been ripping up the rulebook since 2002 after realising

that the way we are working isn't working, and how we are taught to define success is outdated. Today, Kelly educates leaders, Coaches HR and managers from companies around the world on how to recognise, prevent and recover from Burnout.

Connect with Kelly:

The Burnout Academy: https://www.kellyswingler.com/burnoutacademy

Book: https://www.kellyswingler.com/fckburnout

Social Media Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyswingler/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamkellyswingler/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Z6iJPB4gYz1MZoUPOgdlQ

Connect: 


Find | Cathleen O’Sullivan

Business: cathleenmerkel.com

Email: cmc@cathleenmerkelcoaching.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-merkel/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/

FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.

What if your greatest legacy isn’t what you build, but who you build with along the way? In this episode of Legendary Leaders, your host, Cathleen O’Sullivan, invites you into a candid conversation with Nick Peel, a leader whose career spans some of the world’s most ambitious projects, from Arsenal Football Club to the cutting-edge NEOM "Line" project in Saudi Arabia. You’ll hear how Nick’s human-first approach to leadership has empowered teams to thrive under pressure, transcending titles and status in favour of authenticity, humility, and genuine impact. Together, they explore why self-awareness, openness to failure, and the courage to lead with empathy are at the heart of truly legendary leadership. Tune in to discover how embracing your humanity and building others up may just be the most powerful legacy you leave behind.

Episode Timeline:

00:00 Introduction

11:51 Embracing innovation and tackling ambitious projects

15:48 The importance of authenticity and being human in leadership

20:16 Learning from failure and the power of reflection

32:06 Building a strong, supportive family while leading global projects

38:09 Leading high-performing teams through empowerment and simplicity

44:22 The origins of NEOM’s The Line: bold ideas and collaboration

52:03 Leading diverse teams and unlocking innovation through trust

57:31 Supporting women’s leadership for future generations

Key Takeaways:

• Nick shares stories of nurturing talent and pride in seeing former colleagues grow, highlighting the importance of building others up on your leadership journey.

• Nick discusses the value of showing up authentically, empowering diverse teams, and leading with humility, whether in the high-pressure corporate world or ambitious projects like NEOM’s "The Line".

• Nick’s career, shaped more by "default than design," showcases how adaptability, curiosity, and learning steer personal and professional growth. He talks of the importance of reflection, being open to new ideas and leveraging lessons from both success and failure.

ABOUT Nick Peel

Nick has over 30 years of senior commercial and operational leadership expertise under his belt with esteemed organisations like Arsenal FC, LandSec, Battersea Power Station, McArthur Glen Designer Outlets, and Morrison Supermarkets. He has also held Non-Exec roles with a number of entities, including UCI World Cycling Championships, Streetwork charity, and Icons.com. His career spans retail, hospitality, property / real estate and sports, which he confesses is more by default than by design.

Nick is currently Director of Operational Readiness for THE LINE, the futuristic city under development at NEOM in Saudi Arabia. He specializes in building high performance teams, creating go to market strategies, building the new, and fixing the broken. He prides himself on a ‘ human first ‘ leadership style, and is motivated by change, learning, travel, and in particular his family and children.

Connect with Nicholas:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-peel-a5943a9?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app

Connect: 


Find | Cathleen O’Sullivan

Business: cathleenmerkel.com

Email: cmc@cathleenmerkelcoaching.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-merkel/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/

FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.

Is leadership about going it alone, or could sharing the load lead to even greater success? In this episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O'Sullivan welcomes the dynamic duo Clare Freshwater-Turner and Annabelle Richards to explore how job sharing could be the key to enhanced leadership and personal fulfilment. Clare and Annabelle, senior managers in sustainable business at Lloyds Banking Group, have mastered the art of job sharing, proving that two heads can indeed be better than one. Join us to learn about the unique partnership they’ve built over nine years, sharing insights into how combining different strengths and perspectives leads to superior outcomes. Tune in for a conversation that challenges conventional leadership norms and offers a refreshing perspective on ambition and success.

Episode Timeline:

00:00 Introduction

​​08:41 Supporting each other and managing priorities

17:49 The benefits of two coaches for a team

24:10 How to play to each other's strengths

32:07 Why creating a work-life balance is so important

47:42 Communication practises for effective teamwork

56:39 Flexible working enhances productivity and satisfaction

Key Takeaways:

• Clare and Annabelle highlight how their contrasting personalities and skills enhance decision-making and problem-solving. They emphasise that two heads can indeed be better than one, providing richer ideas and solutions, which in turn benefits the entire team and organisation.

• The conversation addresses common misconceptions about job sharing, such as it being more work for managers or only suitable for certain roles. Clare and Annabelle debunk these myths by sharing their experience of managing each other’s development and workload, easing the burden on their line manager.

• On a personal level, job sharing has allowed Clare and Annabelle to maintain a healthy work-life balance. They can pursue personal interests and family commitments while still having fulfilling careers.

ABOUT Clare Freshwater-Turner & Annabelle Richards

Annabelle and Clare are a jobshare and senior managers in Sustainable Business at Lloyds Banking Group, working in the Nature team. They have been with Lloyds Banking Group for many years, working in a wide variety of roles in the Finance and Sustainability functions. These included leading teams, culture change and developing manager training programs. They joined the Group Sustainable Business Team in 2022 supporting Dr. Rebecca Heaton in setting up the team. After they both completed the CISL course with a distinction, they transferred to the nature senior manager role. Within the Nature team, their primary focus is to integrate nature into decision-making and developing training to meet business unit requirements.

Connect with Annabelle & Clare:

Website: https://thejobsharecoach.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thejobsharecoach/

Connect: 


Find | Cathleen O’Sullivan

Business: cathleenmerkel.com

Email: cmc@cathleenmerkelcoaching.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-merkel/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/

FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.