In this bonus episode of the Installation Art podcast, curator and art consultant Carrie Scott joins me to delve into the ongoing controversy surrounding the Venice Biennale Australian Pavilion.

Together we discuss:

• How artist Khaled Sabsabi and curator Michael Dagostino were appointed to represent Australia at the 2026 Venice Biennale and then abruptly cancelled

• The procedural, political, and social dimensions of the decision made by Creative Australia, its impact on the local and international art scene, and what it means for artistic freedom

• How the Australian arts community is responding to the shock decision

• Carrie shares her personal experiences and insights, offering a poignant perspective on the value of art that challenges and provokes.

We also touch on recent tragic news that affects the Biennale more broadly and raises questions about who has the authority to decide what kind of art is “acceptable” or what art is about.

05:02 The Australian Pavilion Controversy: An Overview

06:51 Selection Process for the Australian Pavilion

10:46 Creative Australia's Decision and Backlash

12:10 Senate Hearing and Further Repercussions

17:36 Personal Reflections on the Controversy

38:40 National Pavilions and Curator's Theme

39:09 Tragic Passing of Koyo Kouoh

42:38 Journalist's Role and Agenda

45:16 Art and Political Sensitivities

48:14 Personal Reflections on 9/11

53:16 Curatorial Challenges and Responses

58:59 Speculations and Broader Implications

Carrie Scott is a curator and art consultant based in London: https://www.carrie-scott.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/carriescottcurates/ 


SEEN is a next-generation art consultancy, shining a light on the opaque world of galleries, auction houses and dealers: https://www.seen.art/ | https://www.instagram.com/watchseenart/ | @watchseenart

📬 Got comments? Share your thoughts: SpeakPipe.com/InstallationArtPodcast

Or DM us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/installationartpodcast/

If you want to help the Sabsabi-Dagostino project in Venice, go to this website: https://khaledsabsabi.com/support-the-venice-biennale-2026-exhibition-by-khaled-sabsabi-curated-by-michael-dagostino/

Or purchase a unique artwork by Sabsabi to help raise funds: https://unvanishedsabsabi.myshopify.com/

Khaled Sabsabi speaks: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/the-art-show/khaled-sabsabi-speaks/105050484

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2025/apr/01/exclusive-khaled-sabsabi-speaks-on-the-damage-of-being-dumped-from-the-venice-biennale-full-story-podcast

Also mentioned in this episode:

Khaled Sabsabi: https://khaledsabsabi.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/peacefender/

Michael Dagostino: https://www.sydney.edu.au/museum/about-us/our-people.html

Creative Australia: https://creative.gov.au/ | https://www.instagram.com/creative.australia/

Venice Biennale: https://www.labiennale.org/en | https://www.instagram.com/labiennale/ | @BiennaleChannel

Adrian Collette:

Try Descript: https://get.descript.com/s8kjemvu79fz

In this episode, we speak with Elizabeth Lewis, Public Art Division Manager at Tilt Industrial Design, who offers a fascinating insider's perspective on how large-scale public artworks are engineered, managed, and brought to life. Elizabeth reveals the complex ecosystem of stakeholders involved in creating public art and shares invaluable advice for artists looking to break into this challenging but rewarding medium.

What you will learn:

• How industrial designers like Elizabeth act as "translators" between artists' creative visions and the technical requirements needed to bring monumental works to life

• The truth about public art budgets and practices

• Practical advice for artists wanting to venture into public art, including starting with temporary installations and test sites

• How indigenous artists are bringing multidisciplinary approaches to public art that may reshape the entire field

About Elizabeth Lewis:

Elizabeth Lewis is the Public Art Division Manager at Tilt Industrial Design, an Australian firm specialising in technically complex and ambitious public art projects. With a background in industrial design, she has overseen numerous large-scale installations throughout Australia, working with established artists, emerging creators, and First Nations storytellers to translate artistic visions into enduring public works.

03:17 Early Life and Inspirations

04:39 Educational Journey

05:39 First Job Experiences

08:01 Transition to Tilt

14:58 Challenges in Public Art

18:29 Skills and Learning

33:50 Project Timelines

35:55 The Lifespan of Public Art

45:49 The Role of Public Art Curators

48:01 Building Networks and Identifying Artists

50:49 First Nations and Indigenous Art

53:01 The Growth of Public Art in Sydney

59:09 Convincing Developers to Invest in Art

01:05:08 Advice for Emerging Public Artists

01:24:53 Current and Upcoming Projects

01:26:08 Where to Find More Information

Tilt Industrial Design: https://tilt-industrialdesign.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/tiltindustrialdesign

Also mentioned in this episode:

ResMed: https://shop.resmed.com.au/ | https://www.instagram.com/resmedanz/ | @resmedanz5242

BOC: https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/home | @boclimited

Tim Phillips: https://tilt-industrialdesign.com/news-media/media/tilts-tim-phillips-managing-director-featured-in-boutique-developer/ | https://www.linkedin.com/in/timphillipsdesigns/

Ateliers Jean Nouvel: https://www.jeannouvel.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/ateliersjeannouvel/

Yann Kersale: https://yannkersale.com/ |

Leave a tip: https://donate.stripe.com/4gw4km4VpeUwdkkbIL

Try Descript: https://get.descript.com/s8kjemvu79fz

In this episode, we sit down with Belgian artist Lawrence Malstaf, whose innovative work exists at the fascinating intersection of visual art, performance, and theatrical experience. Based in Tromsø, Norway, Malstaf has earned international acclaim for his immersive installations that transform viewers into active participants.

Episode Highlights:

• Lawrence shares his journey from studying industrial design (rather than fine art at his parents' suggestion) to discovering how this technical background gave him invaluable skills in working with contemporary materials.

• We discuss Malstaf’s famous vacuum piece "Shrink" (1995), where participants are sealed between plastic sheets while air is slowly removed, creating both a striking visual image and physical experience that differs dramatically for viewers versus participants.

• His recent focus on sustainable art practices and an innovative project creating "hotels" for endangered kittiwake seagulls in Tromsø, transforming an urban nuisance into an interspecies art project.

02:44 Quick Questions

05:27 Childhood and Early Influences

07:51 Industrial Design and Artistic Beginnings

09:46 Theater and Installation Art

16:41 Creating Opportunities and Multidisciplinary Spaces

21:50 Sustainable Art and Seagull Project

25:16 Audience Interaction and Physical Experience

29:19 Behind The Scenes Challenges

32:48 Artistic Evolution and Viral Fame

38:22 Sustainable Art Practices

41:48 Income From Art

44:27 Proudest Moments and Career Reflections

47:42 Advice for Emerging Artists

49:44 Internship Opportunity

51:48 Dream Projects

58:46 Where to Find More Information

Lawrence Malstaf (b. 1972, Bruges, Belgium) is based in Tromsø, Norway. He creates installation and performance art that exists at the borderline between visual arts and theatrical experience. With a focus on movement, coincidence, order and chaos, he develops immersive sensorial environments that often position visitors as co-actors in the artwork. His background in industrial design informs his technical approach to materials and mechanisms, while his experience in scenography for dance and theater influences the performative aspects of his installations.

You can find out more about his work on his website: https://www.lawrencemalstaf.com/ and get the latest updates on his Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawrencemalstaf/

Malstaf is represented by Tallieu Art Office: https://www.artoffice.be/artists/lawrence-malstaf/

All images courtesy of the artist.

Also mentioned in this episode:

Ischa Tallieu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ischatallieu/?originalSubdomain=be

Tailleu Art Office: https://www.artoffice.be/ | https://www.instagram.com/tallieu_art

Bains Connective in Brussels: