What if the key to a meaningful life isn’t doing more—but doing less, with intention? In this powerful conversation, Michael and Megan talk with Oliver Burkeman, author of Four Thousand Weeks and Meditations for Mortals, about the myths of productivity, the illusion of control, and why accepting our finite nature might be the best thing we can do for our peace, purpose, and productivity.

Memorable Quotes

1. “It's the relaxation of now I can just do the things that matter the most… I can just sort of dive in because I'm no longer trying to make all my actions feel like they are part of some process of eventually getting to total domination of my time and perfect optimization.”
2. “You are being confronted again with this ridiculous thing that it is to be a human—which is to be capable of imagining basically an infinite amount of possibilities and eventualities, but ultimately being a sort of finite material animal and having to choose only some of them.”
3. “Almost everybody who is trying to sort of optimize themselves into absolute control, you know, they're not succeeding. Life is miserable and they're letting people down all over the place.”
4. “There isn't any system or philosophy or approach or sports nutrition drink that is going to enable you to sort of win the battle with human limitation… Now, we figure out how to flourish in absolutely fantastic and wonderfully meaningful and interesting and lucrative ways within those limitations rather than running away from them.”
5. “There's a way of going with the flow that is actually more constructive and productive as well as more peaceful and meaningful.”
6. “I really found that just sort of expecting discomfort from things that matter to me—whether that is a piece of work or an aspect of relationships or parenting—just knowing that it's going to feel uncomfortable sometimes because it's bringing me to my edge and my limitations makes a huge, huge difference.”
7. “A lot of our productivity is the result of anxiety. And I would like to live a productive life for other reasons.”

Key Takeaways

1. Radical Acceptance is Key. Once you stop trying to win the battle with your human limitations, everything changes.
2. Distraction is Avoidance in Disguise. Most often, we’re dodging discomfort—and the way out lies in tolerating discomfort.
3. Optimization is Not Salvation. We think we can problem-solve our lives, but tools and systems will always fall short. They’re meant to augment, not make us infinite.
4. Meaning is Here, Now. The moments that build a life don’t happen when everything is done—but in the doing itself.

Resources

• 4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
• Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
• The Imperfectionist (Newsletter)

Watch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/571YmI5h_Cs

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if the key to thriving isn’t managing your circumstances perfectly—but rooting yourself in the connections that matter most? In this heartfelt conversation, Michael and Megan talk with Elizabeth Oldfield, author of Fully Alive, about reclaiming depth, community, and soul-level steadiness in a culture addicted to speed and distraction. Elizabeth draws on ancient wisdom, modern insight, and her own experience living in intentional community to offer a hopeful path forward.

Memorable Quotes

1. “You need to put your roots down deep into love and work out how to find some steadiness.”

2. “When we are honest about our full humanity, we give other people permission to do that, and that's a necessary starting point for actually growing up our souls rather than pretending that we all know what we’re doing and we’re holding it all together.”

3. “Where we put our attention is essentially who we become.”
   “I have this sense that fully aliveness is in connection, deep connection, horizontally and vertically.”

4. “Hurrying and destruction are not how we flourish, and we’re constantly being encouraged to do those things. So we need to provide some counter pressure towards slowness and steadiness and presence.”

Key Takeaways

1. Connection Is the Core of Flourishing. Relationships—messy, costly, inconvenient—are where we become more fully human.
2. Attention Shapes Who You Become. Distraction isn’t just a nuisance; it’s a soul-shaping force. Guard your focus.
3. Structure Time Around Your Values. A “rule of life” puts what matters most in place first, so the rest fits around it.
4. Commitment Fuels Depth. Vulnerability without commitment fizzles; together they form lasting community.
5. Ancient Practices Still Work. Sabbath, liturgy, and shared rhythms anchor us in what endures.

Resources

• Fully Alive by Elizabeth Oldfield
• The Sacred podcast by Elizabeth Oldfield

Watch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/-anckhHSdHM

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

After experiencing burnout and adrenal fatigue, author and entrepreneur Chris Ducker realized hustling harder wasn’t the answer. He gets candid about burnout, recovery, and why joy-filled practices are essential for leaders who want to last. Two of his favorites: bonsai gardening and birdwatching. He also makes a compelling case for getting outside. It’s a refreshing invitation back to an embodied, sustainable way of life.

Memorable Quotes

1. “I hadn't necessarily been burning the candle on both ends. But what I had been doing was a little too much of pretty much everything.”
2. “You don't need to break in order to take a break.”
3. “Self-care actually is a strategy, and it's a strategy that you can use to your advantage, particularly from a business owner standpoint.”
4. “Ultimately you're the engine, you're the spark, you're the difference maker. But even engines need a little maintenance.”
5. “Hobbies, particularly creative hobbies, if you spend a minimum of two hours a week on your hobby, you will be as much as 30% more productive in your work.”
6. “Any kind of success that costs you your health or your family or your joy isn't really actually success.”
7. “We want that big win, that big roar. And you only get that by being really consistent and the real game here is patience. It's consistency, it's showing up when it's not sexy, when it's not flashy, it's doing the unsexy work.”

Key Takeaways

1. Burnout Isn’t Just Overwork. Stress from life, context, and even unsustainable pace can take you down. Your body always keeps the score.
2. Self-Care Is Strategy. Leaders last when they guard their health and energy—because even engines need maintenance.
3. Hobbies Heal. Joyful pastimes don’t just prevent burnout; they restore creativity and can boost productivity by up to 30%.
4. Step Outside. Just 15 minutes in nature can reset your mind and body. Make it nonnegotiable.
5. Small Shifts, Big Change. Consistent micro moves compound into lasting transformation.

Resources

• The Long Haul Leader by Chris Ducker
• Youpreneur community

Watch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/GOLw7Vz4kRA

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound