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The Developmental

The Developmental

By: Alis Anagnostakis (Ph.D.)
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 A podcast about the messy, beautiful ways grown-ups grow up. Leaders, learning experts and developmental researchers come together to explore turning science into the day-to-day practice of adult development in teams, homes, organisations, and life. Dr Alis Anagnostakis is an adult development researcher, group learning facilitator and founder of the Vertical Development Institute. Her highest hope as a researcher-practitioner is to help support the growth of conscious, mature and future-fit leaders and to bring the tools of vertical development into day-to-day to day life.

www.verticaldevelopment.education©Alis Anagnostakis Ph.D. Economics Management Management & Leadership Science Social Sciences
Episodes
  • Becoming Deliberately Developmental

    Becoming Deliberately Developmental
    Jun 3 2025
    Welcome to a soulful, candid conversation with experienced coach Donna Trebilcock who is, without a doubt, one of the wisest and most passionate people leaders I have ever met, working in service of a one-of-a-kind brave, norm-bending organisation: Chorus. Together, we explore how deliberately developmental principles are being put into practice within Chorus — through redefining leadership, cultivating collective responsibility, and fostering environments where people can grow into their next developmental edge, but also Donna’s own journey or vertical development and the way it has enabled her to hold space for others’ growth. Donna invites us to a space where raw vulnerability is balanced with practical insights, offering a window into what it really takes to build a developmental organization while becoming a developmental person.If you are in any shape and form involved in leading people or leading people functions, or perhaps coaching or facilitating the growth of people in work contexts, this episode is not to be missed.Episode Summary* [00:00:00] Introduction to Donna Trebilcock* Donna’s background and coaching approach.* Introduction to Chorus as a self-managing, purpose-driven organization.* [00:03:00] The Reality of Developmental Work* How personal and organisational growth journeys are intertwined* [00:10:00] Identity and Developmental Transition* The inner struggle: “Who am I if I’m not indispensable?”* Donna’s transition from Achiever to Redefining and coaching as a turning point. * [00:18:00] The Role of Experimentation in Developmental Leadership* Concrete team-level experiments (e.g., peer feedback in meetings).* Removing top-down control creates empowered, engaged teams.* [00:23:00] Inside the Chorus Experiment* Chorus’ unique model: flat, no hierarchy, no job titles.* Internal coaching evolving from performance focus to deep developmental work.* [00:28:00] Leading Without Authority* Challenges of influence without power.* Coaching as key to growing leadership capacity at all levels.* [00:31:00] Democratizing Power and Accountability* Playbooks co-created by staff.* Agreement-making frameworks that anticipate and hold conflict.* [00:35:00] Impact and Outcomes* Increased engagement, innovation, autonomy.* Vertical development becoming core to the culture.* [00:38:00] Growth Labs and Organizational Learning* Development becoming embedded across onboarding, meetings, and eventually recruitment.* Creating local autonomy and minimizing centralized enabling functions.* [00:43:00] The Messiness of Developmental Work* Dealing with legacy structures and culture.* Compassion and patience as foundational mindsets.* [00:48:00] When Empowerment Pushes Back* Confronting the discomfort of power being questioned.* Walking the talk as a leadership team, even when it’s hard.* [00:51:00] Slowing Down to Speed Up* Developmental debriefs in high-pressure times.* Counterintuitive moves to nurture sustainable growth.* [00:55:00] Donna’s Advice to Her Earlier Self* Expect and embrace the mess.* Compassion for self and others is essential fuel.* [00:59:00] Hope and the Ripple Effect* Recognising human potential and the messy, gritty, real work of making the world better.Guest Bio: Donna TrebilcockDonna is a certified Executive, Organisational, and Systems Coach specialising in leadership and team development through a vertical (adult development) lens. She supports leaders and teams to grow in complexity, strengthen relationships, and navigate meaningful change — especially in progressive, self-managing, or values-led organisations.With deep experience coaching individuals and teams at all levels, she brings a grounded, developmental approach to building high-performing, purpose-driven cultures. She works in close partnership with clients to co-create coaching engagements that meet them where they are and support their most important goals.Donna’s practice is shaped by ongoing professional development and lived experience in complex, adaptive organisational systems. She is passionate about the real work of leadership — cultivating the inner capacity to lead amidst uncertainty, build trust, and grow collective intelligence.Key qualifications and tools Donna brings to coaching partnerships include: • Certified in Executive, Organisational and Relationship Systems Coaching • Leadership Maturity Profile (LMP) accredited • Leadership Circle Profile (LCP) 360-degree accredited • ORSC (Organisation & Relationship Systems Coaching) trained • NLP Practitioner • CILCA360 accredited • Shifting Horizons Advanced Practitioner Certified • Expert workshop design and facilitation (from small teams to whole systems) • Experienced in large-scale transformation and public sector environmentsDive deeperI hope you’ve enjoyed this podcast. If you are curious to dive more deeply into learning about Vertical Development and how it might impact your work and life, check out our online ...
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • Concept of Self

    Concept of Self
    Mar 25 2025
    For this episode, I sat down with researcher, coach, and lifelong explorer Heather Frost to dive into her fascinating work on the concept of self. From global travel to coaching, psychology and philosophy, Heather shares how her journey led her to ask one of life’s most fundamental questions: What is the Self? Together, we unpack the difference between self-concept and the Concept of Self, explore how different understandings of self shape behaviour and identity, and consider what this all means for coaching, adult development, and how we relate to each other. I hope you leave this conversation with a new perspective on yourself and with renewed curiosity about the complexity and beauty of our minds.Episode Summary00:00 – 05:30 | Origins of the Inquiry into SelfHeather’s lifelong curiosity about how people make sense of themselves, shaped by travel, philosophy, coaching, and neuroscience.05:30 – 10:30 | Embracing UncertaintyImmersive travel as a practice of “not knowing” — cultivating openness, resilience, and a fluid sense of self.10:30 – 15:30 | How Not-Knowing Changes UsAlis and Heather explore how dislocation and risk can deepen self-awareness and transform identity.15:30 – 23:00 | Kindness, Openness, and HumilityExposure to difference builds compassion and dissolves rigid identity boundaries.23:00 – 31:00 | Defining Terms: Self-Concept vs. Concept of SelfClear distinction:* Self-concept = beliefs about who I am* Concept of self = what I think the “self” is31:00 – 39:00 | The 3 Spectrums of SelfHeather’s research reveals three key dimensions:* Stability – Is self constant or evolving?* Unity vs. Multiplicity – One self or many?* Thoughts-as-Self vs. Thoughts-as-Patterns39:00 – 44:30 | Why This Matters in CoachingThe Concept of Self influences agency, decision-making, and behaviour change. Coaches must listen for clues in the client's language.44:30 – 54:00 | Adapting Coaching ApproachesTailor your methods: future visualisation works for stable self-views; emergent experiments work better for fluid self-views.54:00 – 1:01:00 | Reframing Limiting BeliefsNo “right” way to view the self — ask: Does this belief serve the client in their context?1:01:00 – 1:08:00 | Links to Adult DevelopmentLater developmental stages often correlate with fluid, multi-part understandings of self — but nuance and fit matter more than hierarchy.1:08:00 – 1:13:00 | Practice for CoachesReflect on your own concept of self. Tune into how your clients relate to Self — and coach accordingly.1:13:00 – End | Final ReflectionsHeather’s hope: deeper awareness of how we understand “self” can foster more compassionate, skillful coaching — and a more tolerant world.Guest Bio: Heather FrostHeather is the Founder and Director of People and Practice, Co-founder of Think Perspective and Visiting Tutor at Henley Business School. She has over 20 years of experience of experience in behaviour change; coaching, mentoring, training, and consulting to clients including Deloitte, Oxentia, Accenture and Kantar. Deeply driven to understand different cultures and the systems that influence behaviour, Heather has lived as a resident in four countries and travelled extensively to over forty countries. Her commercial work with organisations, executives, leaders, and teams incorporates her global experience and expertise in culture change, business transformation, learning and development, organisational development, leadership development, and systemic change.Heather holds a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology (BPsych) with a minor in Philosophy, a Master of Science in Coaching & Behavioural Change (MSc) and is currently a Doctoral Researcher (PhD) in Leadership, Organisations and Behaviour at Henley Business School. Heather won a fully funded scholarship through the Henley Business School flagship "World of Work" award. Heather's research and coaching focuses on the link between self-awareness, meta-cognition, consciousness, sense of agency, quality of thought, beliefs, culture, purpose, and behaviour: ultimately how individuals "act" and behave. Her newly developed psychological scale which measures the Concept-of-Self, upcoming published work, writing, and training helps coaches understand how their “self” and the self of their client’s manifest and interact. Her research explores practitioner self-deception, bias and self-delusion, the self-as-instrument, mindfulness, neuroscience and meaning in life.Heather is a certified Lumina Learning Practitioner, an accredited coach with the International Coaching Federation (ACC) and a Senior Practitioner with the European Mentoring & Coaching Council (EMCC). She holds the following certifications from INSEAD: Leading Organisations in Disruptive Times, Innovation in the Age of Disruption, Strategy in the Age of Digital Disruption and Leading in a Transforming World. She is a Certified Six Sigma Green Belt from PMI (CSSGB). Heather is also an ...
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    1 hr and 25 mins
  • A Lived Experience of Vertical Growth

    A Lived Experience of Vertical Growth
    Jun 28 2024
    Through my work, I have been immensely lucky to meet some exceptional humans who have inspired me, taught me precious lessons of wisdom and even offered me the most precious gift of all: their friendship. This episode features one of these remarkable people: Samantha Kropff. Sam shares with us her journey from being a forensic investigator to becoming a leader and later a leadership development expert and the accompanying transformation she experienced in her work and life. She vulnerably shares the ups and downs of her growth - revelations, setbacks, hard-won lessons and the courageous choice to push herself out of her comfort zone again and again. Samantha is an inspiring example for every woman who has ever had to find her voice and step into her leadership power, especially when working in male-dominated environments. She is also an advocate for the value of vertical development as a life practice, showing us how incredibly beautiful and painfully messy the journey of human growth can actually be. Episode Summary: * [00:05:30] Sam’s Background: Sam’s career and personal journey towards vertical development.* [00:15:45] Redefining vs. Transforming: Differences between the lived experience of Redefining and Transforming. See this previous episode of The Developmental for an overview of the stages of development. * [00:25:00] Sam’s Career Change and Identity Shift * [00:35:00] Relationship with Time: Evolving from a linear to a flexible perspective on time.* [00:45:15] Integrating Shadow Aspects: Importance of integrating shadow aspects in personal growth.* [00:55:00] Organizational Change Challenges: Challenges in pushing for change as the chair of a culture reform committee.* [01:05:00] The Role of Discomfort in Growth: Discomfort as a catalyst for vertical development.* [01:14:00] Closing Thoughts: Final reflections on vertical growth's impact on individuals and organizations.Guest Bio: Samantha KropffSamantha Kropff is a Manager of Leadership Development in NSW Government and also a leadership coach. Samantha has spent her career working in government organisations both in Leadership Development and also as a technical specialist. Samantha is an experienced executive coach, having coached senior police leaders both across Australia as well as 8 international police agencies over the past 4 years.Samantha started her career as a Forensic Investigator working both nationally and internationally on commonwealth police investigations. Working to dismantle global organised criminal syndicates and also helping Australian citizens or those overseas during times of crisis, such as Timor-Leste to help during civil unrest, deploying to Netherlands to assist with the investigation of the downing of MH17, or deploying interstate to help with fatal bushfires.Samantha transitioned from investigating crime to using her investigative skills to explore what influences leadership behaviours, and how to support leaders to grow and development, not just as a leader but as a human being. She can see the exponential impact leaders can have on others and organisations, and it is her passion to find ways to support current and aspiring leaders to be the best versions of themselves.Samantha works with vertical leadership development in her coaching practice and as a leader herself. She is a living example of applying the tool to herself for her own growth and works with leaders who want to do the same. She is especially passionate about supporting female leaders to let go of the conditioning that keeps them small and support them to feel safe to be seen and reach more of their leadership potential.You can read more about Sam’s work on her website: https://www.skleadership.com.auDive deeperI hope you’ve enjoyed this podcast. If you are curious to dive more deeply into learning about Vertical Development and how it might impact your work and life, check out our online library of webinars and courses accredited by the International Coaching Federation.Spread the word…If you want to bring your bit to building a wiser, more conscious world, I hope you share this article with others who could benefit from the learning.and, if you haven’t done it yet, Subscribe!Join your nerdy community and let’s keep on staying curious and learning from each other. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.verticaldevelopment.education
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    1 hr and 18 mins

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