One of the most painful realities of living with a covert narcissist is the absence of reconciliation. Conflicts don’t get repaired. Apologies are either nonexistent or so hollow they echo in your chest. You’re left holding the pieces of a conflict, waiting for your partner to help put them back together—only to realize they’ve already walked away, acting like nothing happened.

In this episode, Renee Swanson explores the gaping hole where reconciliation should exist in relationships with covert narcissists. Through real-life examples—like the silent treatment over a dishwasher, the missed soccer game, and the joke that “was just a joke”—Renee contrasts how repair unfolds in healthy relationships versus how it is systematically blocked in toxic ones.

This episode shines a light on the crazy-making cycle survivors are trapped in: punished for speaking up, punished for staying silent, blamed for everything either way. Yet it also offers clarity and hope: the recognition that the absence of repair is not your fault, and healing is still possible.

If you’ve been left alone in the wreckage, waiting for closure that never comes, this episode will help you name the gaping hole for what it is—and begin to build your own bridge to healing.

DISCLAIMER:
THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

Divorcing a covert narcissist is not just about paperwork—it’s about survival. Today on the Covert Narcissism Podcast, I sit down with Bree Sullivan-Howell, a seasoned family law attorney with over two decades of experience and the author of Crush Your Divorce and Keep Your Faith and Crush Your Comeback. Bree brings both practical wisdom from the courtroom and heartfelt guidance for the personal and spiritual battles that survivors face.

In this powerful conversation, Bree and I dive deep into:

• Why narcissists view their spouse and children as possessions—and what happens when you dare to break free.

• The reality of post-separation abuse and how it shows up in custody battles and court filings.

• How legal abuse works—and why narcissists weaponize the legal system to keep control.

• Practical steps for documenting emotional abuse in ways that hold weight in court.

• The critical importance of building a support team—attorney, therapist, coach, and trusted allies—so you’re not fighting this battle alone.

• How to become a safe haven for your children while navigating accusations of parental alienation.

• Why it’s essential to avoid clinical labels in court and instead focus on facts and behaviors.

Bree also shares her faith-based perspective on reclaiming worth, hope, and freedom—reminding us that there is life after narcissism.

If you’re in the thick of a high-conflict divorce, this episode is a roadmap of both strategy and encouragement. You’ll walk away with clarity on what to expect, how to prepare, and the confidence that you are not alone in this fight.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

When you’re in a relationship with a covert narcissist, it can feel like living in Never Never Land—a place where no one grows up, nothing ever gets resolved, and you’re left carrying all the weight. At first, their charm feels like magic. They’re playful, adventurous, fun. But when real life shows up—accountability, conflict, emotional depth—they shut down, lash out, or retreat into blame.

In this episode, we explore the Peter Pan World of covert narcissists, those who refuse to grow up and keep their partners stuck in emotional childhood right alongside them. Whether it’s Peter Pan or Paula Pan, and whether you are playing the role of Wendy or William, the result is the same: you’re cast into the role of caretaker, carrying the emotional, practical, and relational weight while your needs are silenced.

We’ll unpack:

• The traits of a covert narcissist who avoids responsibility at all costs.
• The emotional toll of being cast as Wendy—or William—in the relationship.
• Why truth, repair, and closure vanish into “Never Never Land.”
• How to recognize the cycle and start writing a new story outside of their fantasy world.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”
Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you better just shut up. I’m better than you at manipulating things, turning things against you, controlling you. This is my territory. This in a marriage! So condescending. So hurtful.
It’s no wonder that we quit talking to them. So many victims shut down and go grey rock and don’t even understand why. They don’t even know what that is, but do it out of survival.
So what should those rights be? What do they look like in a healthy relationship? I re-wrote them:
"You have the right to be you. Anything you say can and will be heard and valued. You have the right to speak your mind. If you do not know how to speak your mind, I will wait patiently and eagerly to hear your thoughts. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, are you open to speaking with me?"
I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse.
•Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?
•Are you searching for people who get it?
•Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?
•Are you running in circles in your mind?
•Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?
•Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world?
I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com
Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse
http://www.covertnarcissism.com
https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson
https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson
https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

You don’t have to know the terminology to know when something feels wrong.
Long before I knew the term gaslighting, I knew the dizzying confusion of hearing “I never said that” about something I remembered clearly. Before I’d ever heard of circular conversations, I knew the frustration of talking in circles until I was the one apologizing. Before I could name moving goalposts, I knew the exhaustion of never being able to “get it right.” And before I understood walking on eggshells, I knew the tension of monitoring every word, every step, every breath.

In this episode, I’m taking you through these tactics—not as cold definitions, but as lived experiences. You’ll hear personal stories, examples, and the emotional reality behind the phrases. And you’ll learn why this podcast isn’t about labeling someone as a covert narcissist—it’s about giving you the language to talk about what you’ve lived through and to reclaim your truth.

Because you may not have had the words back then… but you knew the feeling. And now, you can name it.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

They’ve stopped yelling. They’re going to therapy. They’re more “attentive.” So why does it still feel like nothing’s changed?

In this final episode of our 4-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella, we dive into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in narcissistic relationships: the collapse of guilt into shame—and how it sabotages real change.

We explore:

• Why narcissistically inclined individuals can’t tolerate guilt

• How shame masquerades as self-awareness but blocks true repair

• The difference between behavior modification and emotional transformation

• Why surface-level change without integration eventually falls apart

If you've ever felt confused by a partner who seems to be "trying"—but still leaves you feeling alone, invalidated, or unsafe—this episode will help you make sense of what’s really happening.

This is not just a conversation about narcissism. It’s a conversation about what real healing looks like—and what happens when we mistake shame for growth.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

When the Child You Protected Believes the Narcissist
It’s a betrayal that cuts deeper than most people can understand—when your adult child, the one you protected for years, turns on you and takes the side of the covert narcissist. If you’re walking through this devastating experience, you are not alone.

I’m opening a small, supportive Zoom coaching group just for parents facing this heartbreak. This group is a safe place to process the grief, confusion, and isolation of being cast as the villain in a story you spent your life protecting them from.

We’ll meet weekly to work through the pain, understand why this happens, and rebuild your peace, identity, and strength—together.

This is your space to feel seen, supported, and empowered.
Spots are limited. Learn more and reserve your place at www.covertnarcissism.com

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.

What if that apology wasn’t about you at all?
What if the moment that looked like remorse was really a carefully constructed move to restore a fractured image?

In this powerful continuation of our series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella from The Narcissism Decoder podcast, we dive beneath the surface of “I’m sorry” to explore what’s really going on: the tangled relationship between guilt, shame, narcissism, and the illusion of empathy.

We break down a real-life example of a man spiraling in frustration, seemingly finding redemption through kindness — but is it guilt, or is it shame-fueled self-preservation?

This episode is essential for anyone trying to make sense of the mixed signals in narcissistic relationships, especially for those raising or supporting adult children who are still struggling with internalized shame from growing up in a narcissistic home.

We explore:

• The difference between authentic guilt and toxic shame

• How narcissistic defenses hijack true connection

• Why timing matters in therapy and healing

• How to recognize image repair masquerading as empathy

• Why curiosity — not judgment — is the key to growth

Whether you’ve lived with a covert narcissist, parented with one, or are watching your adult child unravel years of emotional confusion, this episode offers clarity and direction.

🎧 Subscribe so you don’t miss any of this series and future episodes that guide you back to your truth.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY RENEE SWANSON, COVERT NARCISSISM PODCAST, AND CNG LIFE COACHING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE USED FOR DIAGNOSIS PURPOSES AND NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE.

THIS MATERIAL DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL. RENEE SHARES STORIES FROM HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AS WELL AS FROM THOSE SHE HAS TALKED WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. HER MATERIAL DOES NOT CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON HAS NARCISSISM AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS MATERIAL TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION OR SUPPORT A CLAIM THAT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE MATERIAL AND INFORMATION PROVIDED.