Episode 13

In this first of a two-part conversation, we explore the wisdom of nature with Dr. Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham, co-authors of The ABCs of Murmuration. Discover how the synchronized flight of starlings offers profound lessons for leadership, teamwork, and thriving organizations.

Show Notes

What can leaders learn from the mesmerizing dance of starlings? In Part 1 of our conversation with Dr. Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham, co-authors of The ABCs of Murmuration: Collective Wisdom of Nature, we explore how the patterns in nature can guide us toward more harmonious, effective leadership.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• What “murmuration” is and why it matters for leaders and teams.

• The ABCs framework—Awareness, Beliefs, and Connect—and how it moves individuals from “me” to “we” to “us.”

• How Ubuntu—“I am because you are”—shapes leaderful cultures.

• Stories from the field, including how Kathy brought together disconnected organizations to solve complex workforce challenges.

• How to spot and foster murmuration in your own teams.

• Kathy and Robin share practical tools, inspiring stories, and a call to embrace nature’s collective wisdom in our leadership practice.

Reflection questions:

1. Where have you seen harmonious “murmuration” in your organization?

2. What happens when that harmony doesn’t emerge?

3. What’s one thing you can do this week to apply murmuration to your leadership?

Resources & Links:

• The ABCs of Murmuration book on Amazon
• Learn more at Robin's website: https://inneractivebeliefs.com/
• MACRO Leadership, by Michael Cottam: https://amzn.to/476zHRP

The technology we used

• Shure MV7+ Microphone: https://amzn.to/4obxnPC
• Shure MV7i Microphone with Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3GX0Jkb
• Engaged by Design Podcast: https://www.engagedbydesign.com/podcasts/engaged-by-design