What if sitting in the discomfort of "I don’t know" was the first real step in your career change? In this episode, Shayla and Kate delve into the liminal, messy, and often uncomfortable space that exists between knowing what you don’t want and having any clue what comes next in your career pivot.

They discuss the emotional toll during a career change, the allure of certainty, and why high-achievers struggle without a solid plan. Whether you're mid-career and dreaming of something new, stuck in a job that no longer fits, or flailing in the deep end after making a career change, this episode is designed for you. You’ll learn about the powerful lessons hidden in uncertainty and why embracing it can lead to transformative career advice.

We’re calling this the “goop phase” (from butterflies come caterpillars) that weird, stuck, squirmy space where you’ve let go of the old thing but haven’t figured out what’s next. It’s confusing, it’s chaotic, and if you’re in it? You’re not alone.

In this episode, Shayla and Kate get raw about what it really feels like to be a competent, ambitious person who suddenly doesn’t have a plan — and why that might be the very thing that sets you free.

Whether you're thinking about a career change, navigating burnout, or just tired of pretending you have it all figured out, this is your permission slip to pause, sit in the uncertainty, and trust that answers don’t always come from spreadsheets.

In this episode: – Why the unknown is so hard for high-functioning professionals – Shayla’s story of burnout, chronic pain, and forced reflection – Kate’s near-miss with the “wrong job” and what it taught her – The dangerous allure of certainty, and the jobs we apply for just to avoid the unknown – What liminal space is, and why it might be where the magic happens – The difference between fear of change and your gut saying no – How to stop making every decision feel like it has to be “the right one”

This episode is for you if: – You’re contemplating a career change and feel overwhelmed by the unknown – You’ve ever applied for a job you didn’t want just to escape the discomfort – You're terrified of making the wrong choice and failing – You’re trying to think your way out of a season you need to feel your way through – You’re craving real talk, not just polished LinkedIn updates

Resources & Links 📚 The Way of Integrity by Martha Beck – home of the “caterpillar goop” metaphor 🎙️ Elizabeth Gilbert quote: “Don’t rush through the experiences of life that have the most capacity to transform you.” Shayla’s golden rule: “Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.” Join the conversation in our Facebook Group 📩 Subscribe to our newsletter for unconventional career advice at www.outlawspodcast.com

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🌐 Website: www.outlawspodcast.com 📬 Email us: Outlaws Podcast Community 💼 LinkedIn: Outlaws Podcast

Hosted and produced by: Shayla Strapps and Kate Offer

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