Australia traded sovereignty for security with the AUKUS submarine deal, but it might end up with neither.

On this episode of After America, Malcolm Turnbull, Australia’s 29th Prime Minister, joins Dr Emma Shortis to discuss Trump’s AUKUS review, Anthony Albanese’s meeting with Trump, and why Australia doesn’t share values with the US administration.

This discussion was recorded on Monday 16 June 2025 and things may have changed since recording.

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Guest: Malcolm Turnbull, Australia’s 29th Prime Minister // @TurnbullMalcolm

Host: Emma Shortis, Director, International & Security Affairs, the Australia Institute // @emmashortis

Show notes:

AUKUS is a disaster for Australia. Trump has given us an out – let’s take it by Emma Shortis, The Sydney Morning Herald (June 2025)

Australia must resist US bullying to increase its military spending by Allan Behm, Guardian Australia (June 2025)

Navy Virginia-Class Submarine Program and AUKUS Submarine (Pillar 1) Project: Background and Issues for Congress, Congressional Research Service (February 2025)

Theme music: Blue Dot Sessions

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