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Middling Along

Middling Along

By: Emma Thomas
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About this listen

Middling Along is the podcast for women navigating the 'messy middle bit' of life. Whether it's perimenopause, the midlife collision, figuring out what the heck to do with their Second Spring, or looking for ways to life healthier for longer. Voted as one of the Top 25 podcasts for midlife and menopause at https://www.lattelounge.co.uk/podcasts-about-the-menopause/ - Emma speaks to a wide range of guests who entertain, inform, and inspire in equal measure.

Copyright 2021 All rights reserved. Personal Development Personal Success
Episodes
  • Burning Up, Frozen Out – Joe Warner & Rob Kemp

    Burning Up, Frozen Out – Joe Warner & Rob Kemp
    Mar 17 2026

    This time I’m joined by Joe Warner and Rob Kemp, authors of the new book Burning Up, Frozen Out: What Every Man Needs to Know About the Menopause (But No One Told You) – written specifically to help men understand and support their partners through perimenopause and menopause. Joe and Rob share why they wrote the book, the communication tools that can transform midlife relationships, why men don’t need to “fix” anything, and how a little knowledge goes a very long way.

    Joe Warner is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author, and former editorial director of Men’s Fitness magazine. He has spent more than two decades working across print, digital and broadcast media, writing extensively about men’s and women’s health, fitness and wellbeing.

    Rob Kemp is a freelance journalist and author of seven non-fiction books, including the Amazon-bestselling The Expectant Dad’s Survival Guide, The New Dad’s Survival Guide and The Good Guys: 50 Heroes Who Changed the World with Kindness. He has written about men’s health, parenting and sports for more than 30 years.

    What We Talked About
    • Why Joe and Rob wrote Burning Up, Frozen Out
    • The parallels Rob noticed between supporting a partner through pregnancy and supporting a partner through perimenopause
    • Why men often default to “fixer” mode – and the relief that comes from learning they don’t have to fix anything
    • Moving from a solutions mindset to a support mindset
    • The “midlife logistics company” problem: how couples stop talking to each other and start just managing schedules
    • The Midlife MOT – a weekly check-in tool for couples to score how they’re feeling physically and mentally, and use it as a springboard for conversation
    • The Traffic Light List – a green/amber/red exercise to uncover what your partner loves, tolerates and can’t stand (including in the bedroom)
    • Active listening vs jumping into solutions: “Do you want help, a hug, or to be heard?”
    • How men can be the “Sherlock Holmes” who spots perimenopause symptoms before their partner does
    • The disconnect around sex and intimacy in midlife: why men often seek connection through sex, while women need connection before sex
    • Spontaneous vs responsive desire, and the idea of the “sizzle” – giving intimacy time to build
    • Lowered tolerance in perimenopause: why “she’s changed” is the wrong framing
    • Being a co-advocate at GP appointments and the chapter on “Dealing with the Doctor”
    • Rob’s biggest surprise: how poorly the medical profession has served women presenting with menopause symptoms
    • Joe’s biggest surprise: how empowered he felt once he had the knowledge to actually help
    Key Takeaways
    1. You don’t have to fix it. Shifting from a solutions mindset to a support mindset is the single most powerful change a man can make.
    2. A little education goes a long way. Understanding what’s actually happening hormonally helps men take symptoms seriously, respond with empathy, and spot what’s going on – sometimes before their partner does.
    3. Communication is a skill, not a talent. It needs practice, just like anything else. The book provides a menu of practical tools and phrases you can pick and choose from.
    4. Make time sacred. A weekly coffee, a walk, a Midlife MOT check-in – carving out regular, low-pressure time to talk is the single habit that every expert Jo and Rob spoke to swore by.
    5. You’re not alone. Isolation makes everything harder. This is something couples go through together, and asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness.

    “Once they read in the book that their job isn’t to fix anything, you can almost see the weight of the world lift off their shoulders.”

    – Joe Warner

    “All I said to her was, can I make you a cup of tea? That’s all I had.”

    – Rob Kemp

    Links & Resources
    • Burning Up, Frozen Out: https://www.johnmurraypress.co.uk/titles/joe-warner/burning-up-frozen-out/9781399826655/
    • com – includes a free download of Chapter 4 (on men and the midlife crisis) and the Midlife MOT tool
    • Also mentioned: Listen by Dr Kathryn Mannix; Rebel Bodies by Sarah Graham

    If you think your partner could benefit from this conversation, send them a link to this episode and to the book. And if you’ve read Burning Up, Frozen Out, Joe and Rob would love to hear from you – get in touch via burningupfrozenout.com.

    If you'd like to find out more about my work, or how to work with me, please visit www.thetripleshift.org/starthere

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    50 mins
  • She Wanted More: Redefining Success, Purpose, and Power in Midlife with Poorna Bell

    She Wanted More: Redefining Success, Purpose, and Power in Midlife with Poorna Bell
    Mar 4 2026
    “For most of our lives, women have been told that if we look a certain way and behave a certain way, the world will unfold for us. Only to reach midlife and find that, for most of us, it isn’t true, and the booby prize is that apparently we now have to spend yet more time and money obsessing about how to claw our way back to a place of acceptance that never existed.” In this episode I speak to Poorna Bell — award-winning journalist, author, and former UK executive editor for HuffPost — to talk about her new book She Wanted More, the cultural shift happening among women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, and why the conversation around midlife needs to change. Poorna describes the atmosphere before her 40th birthday as apocalyptic, with friends talking about it like the end of the world, and society treating 40 as a cliff edge. Surprisingly, to her, the world didn't end. In fact, things got better. Over the five years since, she's watched her life move on an upwards trajectory, something society never told her was possible. She Wanted More is her response to that gap between what women are told about midlife and what actually happens when you're in it. Poorna noticed women all around her in their 40s, 50s, and 60s making fundamentally different choices than previous generations. Whether that was questioning relationships, redefining career success, opting out of motherhood, or choosing to remain single after divorce. The traditional markers of success (money, power, nuclear family structures) are being interrogated. Women are asking: What do I actually want? What is purpose for me? This isn't a book prescribing one way to live. It's about creating agency — doing an inventory of your life and asking yourself: What do I need to feel power and intention in my own life? Poorna advocates for reclaiming the word ‘climacteric’ because it better captures the magnitude of what's happening in the menopause transition. It sounds dramatic because it is dramatic. She describes her own symptoms as "giant stingrays carrying dread, despair, and fear" — a visceral image that will resonate with anyone who's experienced perimenopausal anxiety and that pervasive sense of doom. Poorna surveyed around 1,000 women for the book, and one surprising finding was the fear younger women now have about perimenopause. Media coverage has skewed heavily negative, and many women in their 20s and 30s are genuinely terrified. Poorna's response? We need balance. Yes, some women have brutal experiences. But many don't. The goal isn't to sugarcoat it or pretend it's all wonderful, but to give women the full picture so they can prepare without catastrophizing. Poorna quotes Ashley Kelch in the book: "The most disruptive act in midlife isn't leaving your job or your relationship. It's leaving behind the version of yourself that you created in order to survive." For Poorna, that meant shedding the version of herself that was palatable, agreeable, and constantly performing. She describes younger Poorna as someone who would say yes to everything, who prioritized being liked over being authentic. Midlife gave her permission to stop. She's learned to listen to her body's signals, to say no without guilt, to recognize when she simply doesn't have the spoons for something, and to honour that without shame. The global anti-aging market is set to be worth $80 billion in four years. Poorna calls it "the same shit, repackaged" — a relentless marketing machine selling women the idea that looking young is the only way to remain valuable. And yet, when she asked the women she surveyed what getting older meant to them, not one mentioned looks. They talked about freedom, contentment, peacefulness, having options. So how do we opt out of this pressure? Poorna's advice: stop engaging with the narratives that don't serve you. Unfollow accounts that make you feel inadequate. Surround yourself with images and stories of women who are thriving in midlife on their own terms. Representation matters — and we have more control over our media diet than we think. One of the most moving parts of the book is Poorna's conversation with her own mother about her early life before becoming a mother. Her mother had a place at university. Everything was paid for. But her grandfather wouldn't let her go because it would have meant living with a family he didn't approve of. Later, when her mother's employer suggested she take auditor exams, her father dismissed it: "You're going back to India to get married soon, so there's no point." Listening to her mother recount this, Poorna felt rage. She could see the brightness, the potential, the intelligence — and the loss of what could have been. That conversation made Poorna softer and more compassionate with her mother. She now asks anyone whose mother is still around: have that conversation. Ask about their life before you were on the scene. Their answers won't be defensive because they're not connected to you as a...
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    42 mins
  • We get Unapologetic with Sophie Jane Lee

    We get Unapologetic with Sophie Jane Lee
    Feb 25 2026
    Ever asked yourself… Am I too sensitive? Too ambitious? Too angry? Too loud? Too quiet? Too complicated to be loved as I am? Too much? Not enough? In this episode, I sit down with Sophie Jane Lee, journalist, author of Beyond Palatable: A Manifesto for Unapologetic Women, and founder of Electric Peach, to talk about what it really means to stop performing, start listening to yourself, and reclaim your right to take up space. Sophie names the cultural trap that's crushing our generation of women: we were promised we could have it all, but what we actually got was the expectation to do it all… badass boss at work, doting mother at the school gates, generous keeper of family birthdays, the woman who never stops and never sits still. Meanwhile, the unpaid emotional labour hasn't shifted. We're performing strength and independence while internalising our exhaustion as personal failure, when it's actually systemic oppression dressed up as empowerment. This quote from Sophie in the book pretty much sums up much of how I feel on the daily: “We need to stop saying women can have it all. We don’t want it all. We want someone else to take some of the burden and give us a fucking break.” Sophie chose the word palatable deliberately. Unlikability is about the impact you have on others: it's reactive, aggressive, and still shaped by external expectations. Palatability is about the energy you carry within yourself. It's the constant self-constricting, the dulling down, the fitting into outdated moulds. Moving beyond palatable doesn't mean you have to burn your bra at dawn or become brash and confrontational. It can be quiet, considered, spacious. It's about taking up space in your way, on your terms. Sophie reframes people-pleasing not as a personal weakness to "recover" from, but as a nervous system response (the fawn response to feeling unsafe). Demonising yourself for a survival mechanism you learned as a child is the opposite of self-care. The goal isn't to become unlikable or stop caring about others. It's to stop abandoning yourself in the process. Forget "if it's not a fuck yes, it's a fuck no." Sophie offers something far more grounded: tune into your body's wisdom. When your shoulders hunch, your stomach roils, your chest tightens? That's your nervous system telling you something. Not every social anxiety means you should shut yourself away, but constantly putting yourself into dysregulation because you're overriding your body's signals is unsustainable. Learn to pause. Check in. Ask yourself: Do I really want to do this? Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes it's "I'll do this, but I'll resource myself first." What will you learn from the book? Your innate worth is not negotiable. Your right to experience joy is real. The more you abandon your own needs, ignore your body, override your internal navigation system, the more you disconnect from joy, from yourself, from others. Sophie wants to start a revolution of unapologetic women who shine their light in their own unique way. Not because it's radical or rebellious, but because happy people aren't mean. When we self-resource, when we allow ourselves our fullest expression, we rise together. How to Become More Unapologetic in Your Own Life: Notice the performance. Where are you performing the role of "good girl," "perfect mother," "always-on professional"? What's the cost to your nervous system? Stop demonising your people-pleasing. It's not a flaw. It's a response to feeling unsafe. Treat it with compassion, not shame. Listen to your body's signals. Your body knows before your brain catches up. Learn to recognise the embodied no. You don't have to override it every time, you get to choose. Practice nervous system regulation. Breathe out longer than you breathe in. Pause before responding. Resource yourself before you walk into situations that dysregulate you. Cultivate self-worth as a lifelong practice. Believe you have as much right to a part of the pie as anyone else. Stop leaving nothing for yourself. Take up space in your own way. You don't have to be loud or bold. Unapologetic can be quiet. Unapologetic can be considered. It just has to be true to you. Remember: your healing makes way for others. When you stop abandoning yourself, you give other women permission to do the same. We rise together. This is for those who’ve shrunk themselves to fit in. For our younger selves. And for the girls growing up in a world of filters, pressure, and impossible standards. Find out more about Sophie, her work, and the book at: https://beyondpalatable.com/ (includes resources and workbook materials)Join the Unapologetic Voices Marathon event on 2nd March here; https://electric-peach.kit.com/d19d48107c (free) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophieturton/ Instagram: @electricpeachstudios Find out more about Emma, her coaching, and how to work with her at www.thetripleshift.org/starthere
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    39 mins
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