How can we work at the boundaries of the landscape as well as our perceptions? How can we work across multi-media within the context of still image-based projects? How do our projects mobilize a certain poetics?

In this conversation, Brian O'Neill and Jeff Smudde discuss paths through higher education like MFA programs, as well as the importance of the mentors one can meet along the way. They also cover questions about work-life balance and how to navigate the seemingly ever-present desire to be pushing one’s work forward.

Jeff discusses his background in design and music and how he got into being a photographer, and the connections and disconnections between fine art photography and journalism worlds regarding concerns about what documentary photography is and can be, more broadly. The conversation also covers the challenges and skillsets involved in making portraits and photographing in a variety of scenarios, as well as how to construct larger bodies of work and the levels of planning/degrees of premeditation that can be involved. Throughout, the conversation explores the use of multiple methods of working within the same project, like sound recording and text alongside still images, all with an underlying theme of zine and bookmaking.

Printed Matter LA – May 15-18, 2025

Jason Reblando - https://www.jasonreblando.com/CV

Jin Lee - https://jinleephotography.net

Juha Suonpää, The Forest is on the Move - https://www.morainebooks.com/pages/books/2258/juha-suonpaa/metsa-liikkuu-the-forest-is-on-the-move-skogen-ror-sig-der-wald-bewegt-sich-signed

Vanessa Winship, Snow - https://deadbeatclubpress.com/products/vanessa-winship-snow?srsltid=AfmBOopsHBmxvcq-pLILCRoRDsReaAqmcUnWl29c3SdpExPJc-A0OFen

Christian Patterson, Bottom of the Lake - http://www.christianpatterson.com/bottom-of-the-lake-book/

Kristine Potter, Dark Waters - https://www.kristinepotter.com/dark-waters

Jordan Weitzman, Magic Hour Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/magic-hour/id1122201914

Tycho - https://tycho.bandcamp.com

Jeff Smudde - https://www.jeffsmudde.com/perennial

Ready for Mistakes, Jeff Smudde’s Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ready-for-mistakes/id1477842413

Brian O’Neill - https://www.brianfoneill.net

Immaterial Books - https://www.immaterialbooks.com

Explicit rating: low-level profanity

How, and by what means, can we capture urban atmospheres and mobility? What can we learn about cities, ourselves, and our societies through these dimensions?

Immaterial Voices host Brian O’Neill becomes the subject of this conversation for the podcast, guest hosted by Tim Hale. They discuss Brian’s book-making work from the past few years and its connections to his training in the social sciences. Brian discusses his first book project, Beach Boulevard (Immaterial Books – 2021) and his forthcoming one - A Desert Transect, drawing connections between the two. While not premeditated as such, the books have become a kind of sequence unto themselves. In both instances, Brian unpacks how different types of mobility, such as walking and train riding, afford distinctive viewpoints on urbanism in the American West. Where Beach Boulevard took on a region nearly over-photographed - Southern California (and more specifically Huntington Beach), in A Desert Transect, Brian discusses how he approached Phoenix, Arizona – a place that is comparatively undertreated by photographers and storytellers. In so doing, he discusses his forays from photography into image-text work, and even field recording and video. Brian also talks about his side projects, such as a self-published book on the Paris metro system, which further illustrates his commitment to visual and textual modes of investigation and experimentation.

Brian and Tim also discuss the issue of whether to work in sequences or series, and what kinds of projects such systems of presentation serve. Throughout the conversation, Brian emphasizes the curiosity necessary to work through the world, and one’s own ideas, often invoking his approach through various literary and social scientific texts and concepts. For example, the idea of a transect – which in biology refers to the systematic study of a landscape along a line to assess species richness – was used as an heuristic inspiration for Brian’s exploratory project on the Phoenix Light Rail, which emerged as much out of personal interest in urbanism amidst climate crisis as from the simple everyday necessity of commuting in the United States’ 4th largest metropolis.

Links:

A Desert Transect: https://www.immaterialbooks.com/store/p/a-desert-transect

Tim Hale: https://www.timhale.net

Beach Boulevard: https://photobookjournal.com/2022/04/15/brian-oneill-beach-boulevard/

Brian O’Neill’s Paris book: https://www.blurb.com/user/brianfoneill

Brian O’Neill on Anima Loci: https://animaloci.org/walking-the-toxic-triangle/

Alex Wilk, designer: https://alexwilk.com

Arturo Soto: https://www.arturo-soto.com/#1

Natura Urbana: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262551335/natura-urbana/

Wyoming Toad: https://wyomingtoad.bandcamp.com

How do we learn how to see? How is that images take us over time and space? What modes of practice, and of travel, introduce new ways of seeing?

In November of 2024, Immaterial Voices host Brian O’Neill had the opportunity to sit down and have a coffee in Illinois with photographer, writer, and scholar Bill Cope. Initially, the plan was to cover just Bill’s four titles with Immaterial Books, all collected in the series, The Rail Way. However, as tends to happen when curious minds get together, the conversation took numerous turns into other territory. Bill recounts some of his early photographic history and memories of when he got his first cameras, heading off to India as a young man with two medium format bodies and film in tow (which has now led to the books in The Rail Way series of books), and how he continues to be fascinated with the developments in camera technology, from digital to artificial intelligence. However, always more interested in the act of photography and what seeing does to us and our minds, Bill and Brian discuss the visual ethnography of figures like Claude Levi-Strauss, and the lesser-known work on train systems of Colin T. Gifford. For Bill, Gifford’s images in particular were revelatory, because they were capturing the emotional qualities of train travel, which opened up a new way of seeing for him. We also get into the role of text in informing images in books and galleries. Across all these topics, an engaging conversation emerges that emphasizes the enduring quality of images, their relation to memory, and photography as a profoundly social practice.

Links:

Bill Cope: https://newlearningonline.com/kalantzis-and-cope

The Rail Way series at Immaterial Books: https://www.immaterialbooks.com/the-rail-way

The Rail Way Facebook (Meta) Page: https://www.facebook.com/@WWCopeRailPhotos/

Colin T. Gifford’s Each a Glimpse: https://rivetingbooks.com/products/each-a-glimpse-gifford-colin-t?srsltid=AfmBOoqqEjDvr9-dL2DmwxkfBfMldEKDBqGY3DdYVpfItC6KuDrxGMXa

Claude Levi-Strauss: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Claude-Levi-Strauss

Saudades Do Brasil, by Claude Levi-Strauss: https://www.abebooks.com/9780295974729/Saudades-Brasil-Photographic-Memoir-Levi-Strauss-0295974729/plp

Frank Cancian – Visual Ethnographer: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1472586X.2021.2008815

Wyoming Toad: https://wyomingtoad.bandcamp.com

Immaterial Books: https://www.immaterialbooks.com

Brian O’Neill: https://www.brianfoneill.net