Some say internal product managers aren’t doing “real” product work. Ryan, Todd, and Joe aren’t buying it. In this episode, they dig into the differences between internal and external product management, and why shifting your mindset, not your products, can give your career the biggest boost.

External PMs get the spotlight with customer growth, revenue goals, and flashy product launches. Internal PMs deal with coworkers as customers, adoption that’s often mandatory, and success measured in efficiency or time saved. That doesn’t make the work less real, it just means the playbook is different. We discuss how internal PMs can dodge the “ticket taker” trap, run discovery without falling into proximity bias, and know when to stick with project mechanics versus when to step back and think like a product manager. They also break down why internal PM can be one of the fastest ways to sharpen your skills and prove your impact.

If you’ve ever felt like your internal PM role doesn’t count, or wondered how to turn it into a career advantage, the porch is open, pull up a chair, and join the conversation.

Introduction: Is Internal PM Real?
[00:00] Setting up the question – Ryan, Todd, and Joe tee up the debate on whether internal PM counts as “real” product management.
[02:15] Frustrations from the field – stories of internal PMs being dismissed as “just project managers.”

Internal vs External: What Really Changes
[05:30] Defining external PM – customers, revenue, growth, flashy launches.
[07:20] Defining internal PM – coworkers as users, adoption is mandatory, success measured in efficiency and time saved.
[10:05] Why the differences matter – mindset, not mechanics, shapes career growth.

Dodging the Ticket Taker Trap
[13:40] When internal PMs get stuck – how backlog triage turns into order taking.
[15:55] Moving from tickets to outcomes – tying work to measurable efficiency and risk reduction.

Discovery and the Danger of Proximity
[20:10] What good discovery looks like – even when your users are down the hall.
[22:45] Avoiding assumptions – why access doesn’t mean you know what coworkers need.
[25:30] Practical tips – running interviews, validating real pain, challenging “just build this” requests.

Project Mechanics vs Product Thinking
[30:05] When execution dominates – rollouts with fixed deadlines and requirements.
[32:20] When to step back – shifting into product mode to uncover problems worth solving.
[35:15] Blending approaches – how internal PMs can flex between project and product.

Career Acceleration Through Internal PM
[40:00] Why internal PM is a bootcamp – faster cycles, broader skill-building.
[42:10] Internal PM as a stepping stone – building credibility and positioning for future roles.
[45:00] Final reflections – why internal PM is not just real product management, but a powerful path to growth.

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