In this episode of Practical Product Management, Leah and Marilyn are joined by Rob Monroe, to explore the real-world complexity of product management in high-stakes environments like GovTech.

Rob shares how he has built outcome-driven product practices across defense, finance, and internal systems by shifting the focus from flashy features to mission-critical impact. Together, they discuss the tension between output and outcome, how to lead transformation without ego, and what it means to help users and teams unlearn old patterns in order to adopt better ways of working.

With deep insights into leadership, systems thinking, and practical experimentation, Rob challenges product managers to focus on what really matters. These include behavioral change, continuous delivery, and aligning product work with the actual mission, whether you're building a military system or an internal analytics tool.

Key Takeaways:

1. Start with the first experiment by shipping something safely to production.

In any organization, establishing a working path to production, even for a low-risk "Hello World" app, is essential for building trust and laying the foundation for continuous delivery.

2. Behavior change is the real outcome.

Features alone do not equal success. True impact comes from changing user behavior, team habits, or decision-making processes in ways that align with strategic goals.

3. Context matters more than frameworks.

There is no one-size-fits-all playbook. Effective product managers adapt their language, tools, and measurement to fit the risk profile, industry, and cultural environment they are working within.

Check out the resource guide on practicalpmpodcast.com for a list of all the books Rob mentions.