In this episode I talk with the remarkable mother-and-daughter team, Norma and Nisha Burton, co-authors of 'Navigating Liminal Realms: Psychonavigation Skills for Lucid Dreaming, Trance Journeys, and Altered States'. Together they bring a rare fusion of deep psychology, shamanic practice, and creative vision, guiding seekers safely into altered states of consciousness. Their work centers on the practice of psychonavigation—the art of exploring the liminal realms of the psyche with clarity, intention, and tools that prevent overwhelm while unlocking profound insight.

Drawing from Norma’s decades as a Jungian-trained therapist and shamanic practitioner, we explore how drumming-induced trance states align with brainwave frequencies and connect to indigenous wisdom from cultures like the Sami and Huichol. Nisha brings her perspective as a filmmaker, technologist, and lucid dreaming expert, sharing advanced techniques that go beyond basic induction—methods for sustaining lucidity, integrating shadow material, and unlocking deeper levels of self-awareness. Their combined perspectives create a powerful map for anyone seeking to explore their inner cosmos.

The Burtons also offer guidance on the mindful use of psychedelics, showing how practices like trance work and lucid dreaming can prepare the psyche to safely navigate entheogenic journeys. By bridging ancient psycho-spiritual traditions with modern science and psychology, they present a holistic approach to altered states that emphasizes healing, integration, and transformation. This conversation is a profound exploration of how to consciously journey into the depths of the mind and emerge with wisdom that can reshape our daily lives. Drop in!

www.luciddreaminglucidliving.com

Norma Burton Bio:

Norma J. Burton is a counselor with a degree in comparative religion focusing on Buddhist and shamanic

traditions, who specializes in trauma healing, shadow work, and dream analysis. Having apprenticed with

Indigenous elders for over 30 years, she founded the Journey to Completion, Institute of Ancient Healing Arts, and

the Circle of Trust Healing Center. Norma lives in Ashland, Oregon.

Nisha Burton Bio:

Nisha Burton is a skilled dream worker, trained in the art of journeying into the deep subconscious from a young

age. For the past decade, she has been immersed in the practice of lucid dreaming. She is also an award-winning

filmmaker, and branding and emerging technologies consultant for Fortune 100 companies. She is a speaker and

teacher at universities. Nisha lives in Ashland, Oregon.

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