Episodes

  • 425: Economist Lester Jones Shares the Truth of Today's Craft Beer Market and Debunks Prevailing Misconceptions

    425: Economist Lester Jones Shares the Truth of Today's Craft Beer Market and Debunks Prevailing Misconceptions
    Jul 18 2025
    This week’s interview wasn’t initially intended for the podcast and wasn’t recorded that way (Brewing Industry Guide subscribers read it last month (https://brewingindustryguide.com/expanded-qa-lester-jones/)), but the topics are salient and the audio listenable, so we thought it would be an interesting change of pace. Lester Jones is the VP of Analytics and Chief Economist for the National Beer Wholesalers Association, and has some pretty deep data-driven insight into what is reality and what is just vibes in today’s world of beer sales which he shares in this conversation. Throughout, we try to unpack what’s actually going on, comparing anecdotal experience to real sales data, for a more accurate picture of the opportunities and challenges in today's beer world. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across North America and beyond. With our 24/7 service and support, your brewery will never stop. Remote monitor your chiller for simple and fast access to all the information you need, and gain peace of mind your operation is running smoothly. Berkeley Yeast (https://berkeleyyeast.com). Berkeley Yeast bioengineers ordinary strains and make them extraordinary—enhancing the flavors you want and eliminating the ones you don’t. Visit berkeleyyeast.com to learn more and start brewing with science on your side. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): As breweries expand beyond beer into other segments like mocktails and CBD beverages, Old Orchard is here to help. We can formulate custom blends featuring specialty ingredients. More information and free samples are waiting at oldorchard.com/brewer. Indie Hops (https://indiehops.com) Lórien seamlessly combines traditional elements of European noble hops with an elegant twang of American modernity. Learn more about Lórien and the rest of Indie’s varieties at www.indiehops.com. Indie Hops — Life is short. Let’s make it flavorful. XTRATUF (https://xtratuf.com) XTRATUF has been making rugged and reliable boots for 75 years. Built for the harshest conditions, the Legacy Collection styles are oil, acid, and chemical resistant with a non-slip rated outsole. Be prepared for whatever comes your way and shop the latest XTRATUF boots on xtratuf.com. Veterans Blend from Yakima Chief Hops (https://www.yakimachief.com) The 8th Annual Veterans Blend from Yakima Chief Hop is available through pre-order! $1 from every pound sold of Veterans Blend will be donated to this year’s non-profit Soldier’s Angels. Plan ahead and place your Veterans Blend pre-order with Yakima Chief Hops at yakimachief.com. Brewery Workshop (https://breweryworkshop.com) If you’re launching a brewery or acquiring an existing one, consider our brewery workshop and new brewery accelerator, September 14 through 17th in Fort Collins, Colorado. Over four days, we engage in panel discussions, technical brewery tours, networking, and small working group sessions that help you better understand and prepare for the challenges of brewery operation. Tickets are on sale now.
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    1 hr and 7 mins
  • 424: For Jordan Childs of Mash Gang, Extreme Balance Is the Key to Great Nonalcoholic Beer

    424: For Jordan Childs of Mash Gang, Extreme Balance Is the Key to Great Nonalcoholic Beer
    Jul 11 2025
    For Jordan Childs, cofounder and head brewer of the U.K.-based brand Mash Gang (https://mashgang.com), you don’t hit the right balance in nonalcoholic beer by nudging a traditional beer recipe one way or another. “The best beers feel like a cohesive collection of a bunch of spiky parts pulling apart from each other,” he says. “The outlier flavors are what make craft beer interesting.” If there’s a method for making nonalcoholic beer, he’s tried it, and in this episode he shares the ingredients and processes that don’t make great beer—as well as those that do. Along the way, Childs discusses: their iterative creative process of testing, learning, trashing, and brewing again filling the gaps left by the absence of ethanol deliberately choosing poorly attenuating ingredients how ethanol removal is responsible for “a lot of bad beer” taking a low-intervention approach to nonalcoholic beer controlling sugar at a finite level and doing everything wrong, on purpose using modern hop products and modern food products for greater control hops that do and don’t work in nonalcoholic beer avoiding the unfermented wort character food safety in the nonalcoholic context And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across North America and beyond. With our 24/7 service and support, your brewery will never stop. Remote monitor your chiller for simple and fast access to all the information you need, and gain peace of mind your operation is running smoothly. Berkeley Yeast (https://berkeleyyeast.com). Berkeley Yeast bioengineers ordinary strains and make them extraordinary—enhancing the flavors you want and eliminating the ones you don’t. Visit berkeleyyeast.com to learn more and start brewing with science on your side. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): As breweries expand beyond beer into other segments like mocktails and CBD beverages, Old Orchard is here to help. We can formulate custom blends featuring specialty ingredients. More information and free samples are waiting at oldorchard.com/brewer. Indie Hops (https://indiehops.com) Lórien seamlessly combines traditional elements of European noble hops with an elegant twang of American modernity. Learn more about Lórien and the rest of Indie’s varieties at www.indiehops.com. Indie Hops — Life is short. Let’s make it flavorful. XTRATUF (https://xtratuf.com) XTRATUF has been making rugged and reliable boots for 75 years. Built for the harshest conditions, the Legacy Collection styles are oil, acid, and chemical resistant with a non-slip rated outsole. Be prepared for whatever comes your way and shop the latest XTRATUF boots on xtratuf.com. Cryo Fresh from Yakima Chief Hops (https://www.yakimachief.com) Cryo Fresh from Yakima Chief Hops combines the innovation of Cryo Hops with the Frozen Fresh Hop concept of YCH Trials 301 and 302, capturing the aromatic vibrancy of fresh hop harvest in an easy-to-use pellet form. Visit yakimachief.com for more information. Brewery Workshop (https://breweryworkshop.com) If you’re launching a brewery or acquiring an existing one, consider our brewery workshop and new brewery accelerator, September 14 through 17th in Fort Collins, Colorado. Over four days, we engage in panel discussions, technical brewery tours, networking, and small working group sessions that help you better understand and prepare for the challenges of brewery operation. Tickets are on sale now.
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • 423: Integrating Used and New Equipment in Brewery Design with Big Grove and First Key

    423: Integrating Used and New Equipment in Brewery Design with Big Grove and First Key
    Jul 8 2025
    It’s no secret that the craft-brewing industry is facing headwinds, and with that comes brewery closures and a flourishing used-equipment market. But as we all know, buying and integrating used equipment doesn’t mean just plug and play: It requires strategic planning, thorough integration, thoughtful modernization, and on-the-fly creative problem solving. If you’re building a new brewery, an expansion brewery, or upsizing the brewhouse in your current facility by combining used and new equipment, this episode is designed to help you maximize value and optimize your operations. This episode is brought to you interruption-free by First Key Consulting (https://firstkey.com). First Key is the leading brewing and beverage industry consulting firm, having worked around the world in more than 50 countries for more than 35 years. First Key has some of the most talented, interesting, and experienced experts who provide their clients with independent and comprehensive advice and work with them to implement solutions in every area of their business. Service areas include strategy and finance, engineering, operations, supply chain and sustainability, marketing and sales, and people and organizational performance. For more background information, including client case studies and leadership group, please visit www.firstkey.com (https://firstkey.com). Panelists for this episode include: Mike Gerhart, Senior Advisor, Technical Services at First Key Consulting (https://firstkey.com) Mike works with breweries of all sizes and scales to optimize performance, scale operations, and navigate complex projects from greenfield builds to existing facility equipment integrations. Before joining First Key, Mike had more than 25 years of experience working with breweries such as Hill Farmstead, Dogfish Head, Otter Creek, and Coors. Reach out to Mike directly at mike.gerhart@firstkey.com. (mailto:mike.gerhart@firstkey.com) Andy Joynt, Director of Brewing at Big Grove Brewery (https://biggrove.com) Andy is responsible for all beer made at Big Grove’s five different operations, including two production facilities and three taprooms. Under Andy’s leadership, Big Grove has become the number one top selling craft beer in Iowa, surpassing Blue Moon and Leinenkugel’s. Big Grove has received multiple awards including World Beer Cup, GABF, and U.S. Open Beer. Tim Wolf, Senior Advisor, Engineering Services at First Key Consulting (https://firstkey.com) Tim focuses on capital project management, process, utilities, and packaging engineering, as well as operational improvements projects. Before joining First Key, Tim spent 15 years with AB InBev in engineering and project management roles where he worked on various brewery projects across the 18 breweries in North America. He also managed and led integration and expansion projects for their craft breweries. Reach out to Tim directly at tim.wolf@firstkey.com. (mailto:tim.wolf@firstkey.com)
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    1 hr and 14 mins
  • 422: Vincent Ménard of Messorem Searches for Brash Balance in Sweet and Sour IPA

    422: Vincent Ménard of Messorem Searches for Brash Balance in Sweet and Sour IPA
    Jul 4 2025
    Montreal’s Messorem (https://messorem.co) strikes an urban pose—the old factory building in a gritty industrial zone is covered with graffiti, and looks more likely to hold underground raves than contemporary brew days. But that’s part of the charm that the founders sought out, as the brand makes no claim to appeal to everyone. If you know, you know, and beer drinkers in Quebec (and now around the United States) increasing seek out their intensely flavorful IPAs because of their unique and creative point of view. Cofounder and head brewer Vincent Ménard has seen the brewery through rapid growth over the past eight years, and shares his perspectives on brewing IPA in this week’s episode. Along the way, he touches on: pasteurizing IPA without shredding hop character making drinkable hazy IPA despite higher finishing gravities using the lowest Lovibond grain for very pale hazy IPA color favoring the dry hop over whirlpooling for hazy IPA hop additions finding a place for new products like YCH 803 layering a range of hop flavors with both traditional pellets and advanced hop products expressing fruit and hop flavors and aromas in sour IPA pitch-lining a wooden foeder for use as a lagering tank And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across North America and beyond. With our 24/7 service and support, your brewery will never stop. Remote monitor your chiller for simple and fast access to all the information you need, and gain peace of mind your operation is running smoothly. Berkeley Yeast (https://berkeleyyeast.com). Berkeley Yeast bioengineers ordinary strains and make them extraordinary—enhancing the flavors you want and eliminating the ones you don’t. Visit berkeleyyeast.com to learn more and start brewing with science on your side. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): As breweries expand beyond beer into other segments like mocktails and CBD beverages, Old Orchard is here to help. We can formulate custom blends featuring specialty ingredients. More information and free samples are waiting at oldorchard.com/brewer. Indie Hops (https://indiehops.com) Lórien seamlessly combines traditional elements of European noble hops with an elegant twang of American modernity. Learn more about Lórien and the rest of Indie’s varieties at www.indiehops.com. Indie Hops — Life is short. Let’s make it flavorful. XTRATUF (https://xtratuf.com) XTRATUF has been making rugged and reliable boots for 75 years. Built for the harshest conditions, the Legacy Collection styles are oil, acid, and chemical resistant with a non-slip rated outsole. Be prepared for whatever comes your way and shop the latest XTRATUF boots on xtratuf.com. Cryo Fresh from Yakima Chief Hops (https://www.yakimachief.com) Cryo Fresh from Yakima Chief Hops combines the innovation of Cryo Hops with the Frozen Fresh Hop concept of YCH Trials 301 and 302, capturing the aromatic vibrancy of fresh hop harvest in an easy-to-use pellet form. Visit yakimachief.com for more information. Brewery Workshop (https://breweryworkshop.com) If you’re launching a brewery or acquiring an existing one, consider our brewery workshop and new brewery accelerator, September 14 through 17th in Fort Collins, Colorado. Over four days, we engage in panel discussions, technical brewery tours, networking, and small working group sessions that help you better understand and prepare for the challenges of brewery operation. Tickets are on sale now.
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    1 hr
  • 421: Gabriel Dulong Is Fermenting a Culture of Innovation at Quebec Craft Stalwart Boréale

    421: Gabriel Dulong Is Fermenting a Culture of Innovation at Quebec Craft Stalwart Boréale
    Jun 27 2025
    There was a time in Boréale’s (https://www.boreale.com/en) not-so-distant past when they might have released a new beer every other year. The brewery is one of Quebec’s oldest craft breweries, dating back to the late 1980s, and over its history it has seen waves and trends come and go. But the changing dynamics of craft brewing in the 2010s posed a different kind of challenge that required a new way to approach innovation and risk-taking. Then head brewer, now vice president of innovation, Gabriel “Gab” Dulong played a big part in that adjustment, getting the brewery into the unfolding world of production-scale hazy IPA in 2016, then pushing hard into nonalcoholic NA beer through the pandemic. Today, the brewery remains one of the largest craft breweries in Quebec—and only in Quebec—producing about 100,000 barrels of beer per year. But innovation is now core to their DNA. In this episode, Dulong discusses: helping an established brewery transition to the market realities of the past decade reorienting to sell on quality and ingredients instead of price point building a new approach to cold-chain storage to properly distribute hazy IPA in Quebec generating internal knowledge in NA brewing developing style-dependent processes for different NA beers experimenting with specialized yeasts before settling on tight processes with standard brewing yeasts building mouthfeel and intensity without alcohol in beer hopping with modern hop products in NA beer malt selection for hazy IPA manipulating final gravity for NA versions of core brands And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across North America and beyond. With our 24/7 service and support, your brewery will never stop. Remote monitor your chiller for simple and fast access to all the information you need, and gain peace of mind your operation is running smoothly. Berkeley Yeast (https://berkeleyyeast.com). Berkeley Yeast bioengineers ordinary strains and make them extraordinary—enhancing the flavors you want and eliminating the ones you don’t. Visit berkeleyyeast.com to learn more and start brewing with science on your side. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): As breweries expand beyond beer into other segments like mocktails and CBD beverages, Old Orchard is here to help. We can formulate custom blends featuring specialty ingredients. More information and free samples are waiting at oldorchard.com/brewer. Indie Hops (https://indiehops.com) Lórien seamlessly combines traditional elements of European noble hops with an elegant twang of American modernity. Learn more about Lórien and the rest of Indie’s varieties at www.indiehops.com. Indie Hops — Life is short. Let’s make it flavorful. Steel Chill Cups (https://SteelChillCups.com) Steel Chill-Cups are the perfect promotional tool! Crafted from 100% recyclable steel and proudly made in the USA. Discover how Steel Chill-Cups can “Put your brand on every pour”—visit SteelChillCups.com today! Arryved (https://www.arryved.com) Not only does Arryved offer a world-class POS built specifically for breweries, but they also provide Arryved Brewery Management, e-commerce, and more to help breweries scale and thrive. Visit arryved.com to learn more. Paktech (https://www.paktech-opi.com) With a minimalist design, durable functionality you can rely on, and custom color matching, PakTech helps brands stand out while staying sustainable. Trusted by craft brewers nationwide, they offer a smarter, sustainable way to carry your beer. To learn more, visit paktech-opi.com Brewery Workshop (https://breweryworkshop.com) If you’re launching a brewery or acquiring an existing one, consider our brewery workshop and new brewery accelerator, September 14 through 17th in Fort Collins, Colorado. Over four days, we engage in panel discussions, technical brewery tours, networking, and small working group sessions that help you better understand and prepare for the challenges of brewery operation. Tickets are on sale now.
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    1 hr and 7 mins
  • 420: “High Notes”—Abstrax Presents Episode #420 With Highland Park and Hop Butcher

    420: “High Notes”—Abstrax Presents Episode #420 With Highland Park and Hop Butcher
    Jun 24 2025
    Episode 420! It’s an auspicious number that we couldn’t let pass without commemorating in some significant way, and our friends at Abstrax (https://abstraxhops.com) have joined us to bring you this partner podcast interruption-free. Abstrax (https://abstraxhops.com) has its roots in the cannabis world but has taken cutting edge tech and developed a number of applications for the brewing world, from their hop-derived varietal-specific Quantum series that uses ultra-low-temp extraction to preserve the delicate aromatics of hops, to Skyfarm TTB-approved fruit flavors, BrewGas cannabis-inspired but TTB-approved terpene profiles for craft beverages, and new Omni Hop extracts that capture the profile of your favorite selection and let you maintain and scale it year after year. Joining for this episode are: Ross Hunsinger, Hops Brand Director for Abstrax Tyler Thurman, R&D Manager for Highland Park Brewery in Los Angeles Jude LaRose, cofounder of Hop Butcher for the World in Chicago This is a pragmatic and realistic episode, looking not just at what’s possible, but what’s good, because technology alone doesn’t make great beer. But great technology in the hands of innovative and creative brewers can take us to “future flavors” that weren’t possible before. Visit Abstraxhops.com (https://abstraxhops.com) for more information on the broad range of stuff we’ve mentioned here. Their sample kits available through their shop are great way to get to know their products.
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    1 hr and 12 mins
  • 419: Jean-Phillippe Lalonde of Silo Finds Fullness and Expression in Continental-Style Lagers and Kölsch

    419: Jean-Phillippe Lalonde of Silo Finds Fullness and Expression in Continental-Style Lagers and Kölsch
    Jun 20 2025
    Don’t tell Jean-Phillippe Lalonde of Silo (https://bieresilo.com) that craft lager is a “new” trend—he’s been brewing small batches for Montreal drinkers for nearly 15 years. Opened two weeks before COVID shutdowns in 2020, Silo is the second manifestation of Lalonde’s brewing vision. Designed with packaging in mind, Silo also includes some thoughtful choices (such as a direct-fire kettle) that are budget-friendly while supporting the kinds of lagers he loves to make and drink—expressive ones with fullness and flavor. With lagers inspired by Franconia and Plzeň, altbier and Kölsch inspired by Köln and Düsseldorf, and a mindest that doesn’t fear regional tweaks such as North American hops and grain, Lalonde views innovation within the broad confines of tradition. For him, late hopping a Czech-style pale lager is okay... but dry hopping is a bridge too far. In this episode, Lalonde discusses: the dream of building a brewery with just one beer building fullness with protein, hot mashes, long boils, and a little bit of help from specialty malt incorporating North American hops such as Crystal into traditional lager using a pseudo-decoction technique to build additional body balancing sweetness and bitterness in fulsome lagers using low-alpha hops across multiple points in the boil, from 75 minutes to zero managing sulfur production And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across North America and beyond. With our 24/7 service and support, your brewery will never stop. Remote monitor your chiller for simple and fast access to all the information you need, and gain peace of mind your operation is running smoothly. Berkeley Yeast (https://berkeleyyeast.com). Berkeley Yeast bioengineers ordinary strains and make them extraordinary—enhancing the flavors you want and eliminating the ones you don’t. Visit berkeleyyeast.com to learn more and start brewing with science on your side. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): As breweries expand beyond beer into other segments like mocktails and CBD beverages, Old Orchard is here to help. We can formulate custom blends featuring specialty ingredients. More information and free samples are waiting at oldorchard.com/brewer. Indie Hops (https://indiehops.com) Lórien seamlessly combines traditional elements of European noble hops with an elegant twang of American modernity. Learn more about Lórien and the rest of Indie’s varieties at www.indiehops.com. Indie Hops — Life is short. Let’s make it flavorful. Steel Chill Cups (https://SteelChillCups.com) Steel Chill-Cups are the perfect promotional tool! Crafted from 100% recyclable steel and proudly made in the USA. Discover how Steel Chill-Cups can “Put your brand on every pour”—visit SteelChillCups.com today! Arryved (https://www.arryved.com) Not only does Arryved offer a world-class POS built specifically for breweries, but they also provide Arryved Brewery Management, e-commerce, and more to help breweries scale and thrive. Visit arryved.com to learn more. Paktech (https://www.paktech-opi.com) With a minimalist design, durable functionality you can rely on, and custom color matching, PakTech helps brands stand out while staying sustainable. Trusted by craft brewers nationwide, they offer a smarter, sustainable way to carry your beer. To learn more, visit paktech-opi.com Brewery Workshop (https://breweryworkshop.com) If you’re launching a brewery or acquiring an existing one, consider our brewery workshop and new brewery accelerator, September 14 through 17th in Fort Collins, Colorado. Over four days, we engage in panel discussions, technical brewery tours, networking, and small working group sessions that help you better understand and prepare for the challenges of brewery operation. Tickets are on sale now.
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    59 mins
  • 418: Faster, More Reliable, More Consistent—Dialing In Hot-Side Process Improvement and Optimization

    418: Faster, More Reliable, More Consistent—Dialing In Hot-Side Process Improvement and Optimization
    Jun 17 2025
    The focus of this spotlight episode is hot-side process improvements that will make your brew day quicker, more reliable, and more consistent. We get into the nitty-gritty of tank jackets, grist hydration, lauter-tun geometry, pressure differentials, kettle heating, and more, with a clear focus on lean manufacturing, reducing variability with Six Sigma DMAIC models, optimizing systems for the chemical and physical processes of brewing, workflow improvement for efficiency with provable ROI, and more. Joining for this conversation are: Kevan McCrummen: owner and head brewer of Vantage Point Brewing in Coeur D’Alene, Idaho Matthew Whitaker: sales engineer for Boiler Technologies Unlimited Vernon Spaulding: president and owner of Providence Process Solutions This in-depth discussion about hot-side process is brought to you interruption-free by Miura (https://miuraboiler.com), the global leader in modular on-demand steam solutions. Miura’s boiler solutions are efficient, safe, and reliable, with flexible fuel options, compact footprints that fit today’s breweries, modular expandable systems that grow with your brewery, and monitoring technology that gives you peace of mind. Their boilers are backed by the industry’s only pressure-vessel guarantee against corrosion, and they offer a full lineup of equipment that integrates with your boiler, from water softening to de-aeration, reverse osmosis, and more. Learn more or contact them at Miuraboiler.com (https://miuraboiler.com).
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    1 hr and 7 mins