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Join Nathan on this episode of BetaTalk as he sits down with Olly Cutting, Johann Kühns, and Pranjal Arya from HomeTree. The team from HomeTree shares their incredible journey, from a boiler installation company to a multifaceted energy services provider. We learn how Olly and Pranjal's economic backgrounds, combined with Johann's expertise in Climate Change management and finance from Imperial College London, have shaped their innovative, data-driven approach.

The Customer Journey Flywheel

The conversation centers on HomeTree's innovative business model, structured around a "customer journey flywheel" with three key divisions:

• Home Cover: Offering service plans for boilers and heat pump installations, rivaling big players like British Gas.
• Renewable Installations: Specializing in the installation of solar, battery, and heat pump systems.
• Renewable Financing: A crucial division that helps customers overcome the significant upfront cost of new energy systems, making the transition more accessible.

This flywheel model ensures that customers are supported at every stage of their energy transition.

A Different Approach to Acquisition

Nathan and his guests discuss HomeTree's unique strategy of acquiring local SME's (Small and Medium-sized Enterprises), like the respected IMS Heat Pumps Ltd led by Emma Bohan. They explore why this approach is so beneficial for both HomeTree and the acquired businesses. HomeTree's data revealed that customers prefer working with local installers, and this acquisition model allows them to scale while maintaining a personal touch.

Beyond Technology

The discussion also highlights that the move to renewable energy isn't just a technological change; it's a behavioral shift for customers. Nathan shares his thoughts on how the Guild of Master Heat Engineers can collaborate with HomeTree to help both the company and its customers navigate this transition, building on the great conversation they started over dinner. 🍽️

This season is being sponsored by Intergas

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Join Nathan this week for an exclusive episode recorded live from the Qvantum HQ in Sweden! Nathan sits down with a team of true industry heavyweights to discuss the future of heating solutions for multi-occupancy dwellings.

In this insightful conversation, Nathan is joined by his good friend and a titan of the European heat pump sector, Thomas Nowak. As the former General Secretary of the European Heat Pump Association for nearly 18 years, Thomas shares his unparalleled knowledge of how Europe is tackling the challenge of heating decarbonisation.

We also speak with Philip Ord, Qvantum's Managing Director, and Darren Manley, the technical expert behind Qvantum's innovative solutions. The discussion delves into the intricacies of their offering, exploring the dual benefits of heating and cooling, the critical issue of overheat protection, and the technical innovations that make their systems ideal for multi-residential buildings.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the technical and strategic side of decarbonisation, from on-the-ground installers to policy makers. Tune in to hear from a leading company in the space and get a unique perspective on the European journey to a cleaner heating future.

This season is being sponsored by Intergas... check out their xylinder, a cylinder designed for heat pumps

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Expanding Horizons: BetaTalk's New Newsletter and Website!

We're thrilled to announce that BetaTalk is growing! In addition to our regular podcast episodes, we're launching a brand new newsletter and an associated website. This expansion will allow us to bring you even more in-depth content, industry news, and valuable insights into the world of heat pumps and sustainable building.

Our newsletter, launching shortly, will be your go-to source for the latest industry developments, insightful opinion pieces from the third sector, and crucially, real-world heat pump case studies from experienced engineers in the Guild of Master Heat Engineers. This is an exciting step in our mission to inform and empower.

As Chris Stark, former CEO of the Climate Change Committee, remarked about this new venture: "Nathan is one of the UK’s clean heat leaders, so I always watch him closely. This collaborative media venture is an exciting next step. We need positive voices like Nathan’s to help broaden knowledge around retrofit and heat pump installations."

Don't miss out! Be among the first to receive our new newsletter and stay ahead of the curve:

Sign up now for exclusive content and updates!

Episode Notes:

Welcome back to BetaTalk! In this fascinating episode, we delve deep into the world of air-to-air (A2A) heat pump systems for domestic properties. We were incredibly fortunate to be joined by two distinguished guests: Es Tresidder, a consultant specialising in Passivhaus design and low-carbon building design optimisation, and Michael Cosham, a seasoned HVAC engineer with 47 years of invaluable experience.

Our conversation began by exploring air-to-air systems in general, including Michael's personal experience building an A2A system for his first home on Canvey Island. Es then shared insights into the A2A system installed in his own highly efficient home, providing a real-world perspective on their performance.

We thoroughly discussed the numerous advantages of A2A systems in domestic properties, highlighting their efficiency and effectiveness. We also touched upon some perceived disadvantages, but as our conversation unfolded, it became clear that many of these concerns, such as fan speeds, comfort, noise, and even dry skin issues, may be simple to resolve with proper system setup and design. Indeed, with the right configuration, these issues may not even exist.

For more on this, and avoiding potential pitfalls, Es has provided these insightful articles:

• About overheating in low-energy buildings: https://www.highlandpassive.com/do-low-energy-buildings-have-an-overheating-problem/
• Understanding thermal comfort: https://www.highlandpassive.com/why-do-i-feel-chilly/

A key takeaway from this episode was the remarkably low cost of A2A heat pumps, making them an increasingly attractive and accessible option for homeowners looking to embrace sustainable heating solutions.

Join us for a truly enlightening discussion that challenges preconceptions and sheds light on the true potential of air-to-air heat pump technology.

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Rhiannon and Nathan discuss the recent Installer Show 2025 at Birmingham NEC, covering current trends within the heating industry, including issues related to training.

This season is sponsored by Intergas

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In this episode Nathan chats to his friend Ian Edgeworth, author of the recent books "Wellcome to the Wonderful world of Air source Heat Pumps - What Kept You" and "The Pocket Guide to Low Temperature Central Heating"

You can find the books at New Perspectives.Com

Listen to Ian's journey into teaching and what he and Nathan think of the current situation regarding heat pump training.

This season is being sponsored by Intergas who make the quality xylinder - a heat pump cylinder

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Learn more about heat pump heating by following
Nathan on Linkedin, Twitter and BlueSky

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The latest episode of BetaTalk dives deep into a topic of critical importance for the future of skilled trades and green technology: the intricate world of Vocational Training Qualifications (VTQs) and how they stack up against General Qualifications (GQs).

Host Nathan Gambling, always at the forefront of heating and skills discussions, explores a key differentiator in VTQs: the expectation that ALL learning outcomes must be truly mastered for a qualification to be awarded. This isn't just about passing an exam; it's about demonstrating genuine competence.

What makes this particularly "interesting," as Nathan highlights, is the unique assessment model. Unlike GQs, the assessment for VTQs is largely devolved to the training centre, rather than solely residing with the awarding organisation (AO). However, here's the kicker: the AO remains fully responsible and accountable for the quality and integrity of the qualification itself.

This creates a fascinating dynamic. On one hand, it makes it incredibly straightforward to independently assess whether individuals have genuinely mastered every single learning outcome. If something's amiss, it's very easy to trace accountability back to the awarding organisation.

This conversation takes on even greater significance when we consider the millions of taxpayer pounds currently funding crucial qualifications, such as those for heat pump installations. With significant public investment, ensuring that these qualifications genuinely produce competent professionals is paramount.

Tune in to the latest BetaTalk episode to understand the implications of this assessment model, the responsibilities of AOs, and why robust VTQs are essential for building a skilled workforce, especially in vital sectors like renewable heating.

This season is sponsored by Intergas

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This week on the podcast, Nathan sits down with Nigel from DK Heat Recovery to discuss an innovative approach to energy efficiency.

Many businesses across the UK, like meat and food processing plants and butchers, rely on cold storage rooms kept cool by heat pump systems. These facilities also require significant amounts of hot water for their washing-down processes. Similarly, gyms use heat pump systems to maintain a comfortable temperature for workouts and need plenty of hot water for showers.

Traditionally, the heat generated by these cooling systems is simply expelled into the atmosphere, a complete waste of energy. However, DK Heat Recovery has developed a clever solution to recycle this wasted energy and use it to heat hot water.

Tune in to hear Nigel explain how the special coils in their cylinders are designed to capture the heat from the refrigerant instead of letting it escape into the atmosphere. It's a fascinating look at how businesses can become more sustainable and reduce their energy costs!

This season's sponsor is Intergas who make a great xylinder for heat pump systems

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Join Nathan's guests David & Rob from Fornax and dive into the nitty-gritty of the Boiler Upgrade Scheme (BUS) consultation and explore how third-party finance could be the key to unlocking widespread domestic heat pump adoption. We'll break down the "finance gap challenge," look at what makes third-party ownership work, and dissect the pros and cons of different financing models.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The Finance Gap Challenge: Why current BUS grants alone aren't enough for mass market adoption and how existing loan products fall short for consumers and installers.
• The Power of Third-Party Ownership: How it dramatically increases heat pump installations by offering:
  • Superior consumer protection: If the system fails, customers stop paying, and the financer is responsible for resolution.
  • Risk alignment: Financiers are incentivized to ensure proper installation and ongoing performance.
  • Better affordability and accessibility: Eliminates large upfront capital requirements.
  • Support for installer businesses: Creates sustainable, predictable maintenance income.
• What Works: Consumer Hire vs. What Doesn't:
  • Consumer Hire agreements: The only commercially viable third-party ownership model under UK regulation.
    • Subject to robust FCA Consumer Duty protections—not "lightly regulated."
    • Consumers have clear and simple mechanisms to keep their system; providers don't want them back!
  • Why Hire Purchase models are problematic: Despite being highlighted in the consultation, they remain commercially unworkable due to existing financial regulations.
• Consumer Protection Reality Check:
  • Consumer preference surveys don't equal deliverable products—regulatory constraints matter.
  • Consumer protection isn't free: Every additional measure either limits access to affordable heat pumps or makes them more expensive/unworkable. Duplicative measures unfairly penalize consumers.
  • Repossession rights are fundamental to risk pricing; removing them increases costs for all consumers (e.g., mortgages).
  • Maximum term limits would reduce affordability and increase financial exclusion.
  • Many proposed duplicative requirements (e.g., Ofgem doing things the FCA already does) deter small businesses and hinder independent installers.
• Innovation vs. Prescription Risk:
  • Over-prescription risks stifling innovation just as the market gains momentum.
  • Standard contract requirements could recreate past failures like the Green Deal/Green Homes Grant.

THIS SEASON IS BEING SPONSORED BY INTERGAS

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Learn more about heat pump heating by following
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