47. The Pacemaker in My Brain: Treatment‑Resistant Depression, Deep Brain Stimulation (DBS), & Pulverizing the Stigma with Jon Nelson (ft. Dr. Martijn Figee) cover art

47. The Pacemaker in My Brain: Treatment‑Resistant Depression, Deep Brain Stimulation (DBS), & Pulverizing the Stigma with Jon Nelson (ft. Dr. Martijn Figee)

47. The Pacemaker in My Brain: Treatment‑Resistant Depression, Deep Brain Stimulation (DBS), & Pulverizing the Stigma with Jon Nelson (ft. Dr. Martijn Figee)

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 On episode 47 of A Chat with Uma, I sit down with my dear friend Jon Nelson—lived-experience mental health expert & longtime healthcare comms exec—whose decade of treatment-resistant depression nearly killed him before an experimental deep brain stimulation (DBS) surgery flipped the circuit & brought instant remission in 2022. Jon shares the unfiltered, brutal reality of suicidal depression & how anger became fuel for advocacy. We trace his decade of every failed treatment—while his wife & kids bore the invisible trauma of caregiving.He breaks down the difference between sadness & clinical disease, the neurological reality of “choosing life,” & why suicidality is a symptom—not a character flaw. Mid-episode, his psychiatrist Dr. Martijn Figee joins to unpack their shared experience of navigating DBS. Equal parts remission, reclamation, and rebellion—Jon turns survival into a movement to pulverize the stigma of serious mental illness. And come back next week for a solo episode with Dr. Figee, deep-diving into the science of DBS!Topics Discussed (+ Timestamps):(00:00:00) Introduction & welcome to Jon!(00:08:40) Where does Jon come from? Upbringing, background, formative years(00:18:50) Dislocation at 16 → situational depression, honing empathy; college & NYC healthcare advertising years(00:30:40) The descent: depression as cellular “poison,” initial denial, & suicidality as symptom—not weakness, drama, or moral failing(00:49:30) The caregiver toll: bathtub breakdowns, kids’ confusion, insurance combat, financial strain(00:57:30) A decade of failed interventions: 10+ meds, ketamine (IV & nasal), 36 TMS, 11 ECT (memory loss), residential & PHP/IOP cycles(01:22:00) Absolute hopelessness, stigma, & the slim reason to stay(01:28:40) Deep Brain Stimulation prep: trial entry, consent, mindset, surgical risks(01:34:00) Switch flipped: activation, instant remission, and the shock of neutral daily life(01:37:10) Relief & righteous anger: gratitude colliding with a decade of preventable suffering(01:41:00) Dr. Martijn Figee, Jon's psychiatrist: translating “poison” affect into subcallosal cingulate circuit target(01:48:10) Phenotype → target: differentiating negative affect circuitry from OCD loops, guiding lead (or TMS coil) placement(01:52:30) Toward precision psychiatry: circuit diagnostics over trial‑and‑error pharmacology(01:55:00) Pulverize The Stigma: public truth‑telling, rejecting “difficult to treat,” anger as disciplined fuel(01:57:30) Centering caregivers: invisible labor, secondary trauma, & shared remission(01:59:40) Advocacy blueprint: accountability for insurers, institutions, & language reform(02:02:00) Redefining recovery as access to ordinary life & collective responsibilityConnect with Jon!⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: Pulverize The Stigma⁠Instagram: ⁠⁠@PulverizeTheStigma⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠Email: jon@pulverizethestigma.com⁠Connect with Dr. Martijn Figee:⁠Email: martijn.figee@mssm.edu⁠⁠TRANSCEND Trial: DBS for treatment-resistant depression⁠⁠DBS for OCD⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try CURED Nutrition's CBN Night Oil, Serenity Gummies, & all of their other fantastic products--Use code 'UMA' for 15% off of all products!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Try CLEARSTEM's amazing skincare products, including VITAMINSCRUB, CELLRENEW, CLEARITY, HYDRAGLOW, and HYDRABERRY--Use code 'UMA' for 15% off all products!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Connect with me!My website⁠: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠umarchatterjee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@UmaRChatterjee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@UmaRChatterjee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@UmaRChatterjee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠hello@umarchatterjee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support my work: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ko-fi.com/umarchatterjee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a guest you want on the show? Fill out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Guest Suggestion Form!⁠

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