What does it take to confront racism without falling into despair and instead transform our institutions for equity and justice? In this episode, Dr. Zeitz speaks with Professor Susan Sturm of Columbia Law School, a leading scholar and changemaker whose work bridges law, education, and community action. Drawing from her new book, What Might Be: Confronting Racism to Transform Our Institutions, Sturm unpacks the paradoxes at the heart of American democracy, the persistence of racial caste, and the urgent need for participatory democracy. Together, they explore:

• How personal history and contradictions can fuel a lifelong commitment to justice
• The Constitution’s paradox of freedom and slavery and why it still matters today
• Why movements, not laws, are the true drivers of change
• How “linked fate” reveals our interdependence across race, class, and identity
• The potential of citizens’ assemblies and local democracy to reimagine our future

At a time when progress is under attack, Sturm offers a hopeful call to action: despair is not a strategy.

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Revolutionary Optimism is hosted by Dr. Paul Zeitz.