What if your engineering team didn’t just write code, but owned product discovery, wrote the launch messaging, and handled early sales? In this episode, Michael Grinich, CEO and founder of WorkOS, deconstructs their playbook for collapsing the product/engineering stack: no design leads, only one PM, and engineers who own product end-to-end. Michael breaks down how they teach product thinking, build with deep customer insight, and why his most important job is often to "cut scope." You’ll learn how to remove the "lossy translation layers" between teams, build a culture of curiosity and customer obsession, and ship higher-quality products, faster.

Michael is the founder and CEO of WorkOS, a developer platform that enables companies to become Enterprise Ready through features like Single Sign-On (SAML). Their customers include many of the fastest-growing startups including Webflow, Drata, Loom, and +200 others. Before WorkOS, Michael co-founded Nylas and studied CS at MIT.

So you’ve invested in AI agents for code generation, but they’re limited to experiments or even stuck on the shelf. To do real, valuable work, those AI agents need access to your data and systems.

ToolHive helps you confidently connect the pieces by making it simple and secure for you to use the Model Context Protocol (MCP).

ToolHive includes a pre-vetted registry of MCP servers, containerizes every MCP server for consistency and leans on built-in security to keep your secrets safe.

Leaders trust ToolHive to put MCP into production and put their AI agents to work.

ELC Annual is the premier event for engineering leaders. This is our biggest event of the year: 1,000+ CTOs, VPs & Directors in San Francisco @ ELC Annual 2025 for two days of leadership breakthroughs, tactical peer learning & curated connections!

• Marketing technical products exclusively to other tech companies (2:39)
• Building products end-to-end without PMs (6:36)
• How WorkOS utilizes fun, user feedback, and cohesive storytelling in their product-building process (9:31)
• Hiring engineers for curiosity & comfort operating in ambiguity (12:48)
• How engineers owning product discovery & directly engaging w/ users improve product insights (16:31)
• Using Slack for real-time integrated support & rapid product iteration (19:38)
• The complexities of creating simple, elegant products and marketing messaging (21:54)
• Cut scope ruthlessly to ship faster and better (26:20)
• Small, simple, deeply useful features make the biggest impact (30:30)
• The weekly cadence that keeps engineering aligned (32:52)
• Behind the scenes of MCP Night: A protocol party for devs (38:20)
• Rapid fire questions (41:29)

• MCP Night
• **WorkOS Launch Week**
• WorkOS AuthKit
• The Business Value of Computers: An Executive's Guide - Paul A. Strassmann addresses the practical needs of executives responsible for planning, budgeting and justifying information technology expenditures. It shows that there is no direct relation between spending on computers, profits or productivity.

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

John Amaral (CTO and co-founder @ Root.io) joins us to discuss the evolving role of engineering leaders and why vision-first leadership & building your “vision” muscle is more critical than ever. We dive into why “shift left” is dead and why SaaS is being replaced by “do-it” as a service. John also unpacks how to think in outcomes, apply the Jobs-To-Be-Done framework to eliminate toil, and reimagine product experiences. Plus, we look inside Root.io’s approach to building AI-native security products that ship daily. Whether you’re rethinking your org design or exploring the frontier of AI-powered engineering, this episode will reshape how you think about building, leading, and scaling teams.

John Amaral, CTO and co-founder of Root.io, is a veteran cybersecurity leader with a proven track record of scaling and exiting successful companies. At Cisco, he led Product for Cloud Security—its fastest-growing Security and SaaS business. Before that, he ran product and engineering at CloudLock through its acquisition by Cisco in 2016. Earlier, as SVP of Product at Trustwave, John led its industry-leading security portfolio, culminating in a strategic acquisition by Singtel. Today, he’s building Root.io—a next-gen cybersecurity platform pioneering Agentic Vulnerability Remediation (AVR) to automate and eliminate software vulnerabilities at scale.

ELC Annual is the premier event for engineering leaders. This is our biggest event of the year: 1,000+ CTOs, VPs & Directors in San Francisco @ ELC Annual 2025 for two days of leadership breakthroughs, tactical peer learning & curated connections!

• The evolving role of engineering leaders (2:13)
• “Shift Left is Dead” - Why it’s time to “Shift Out” (5:59)
• Applying Jobs-To-Be-Done & offloading toil with AI (11:00)
• Root.io’s AI-driven approach to security (15:03)
• Vision First Leadership (22:36)
• Empowering developers & shipping daily (27:38)
• Rethinking product & engineering orgs and building your vision muscle (30:47)
• Unlocking creativity through hobbies (36:37)
• Rapid fire questions (41:14)

• The All-In Podcast - When the pandemic prevented four friends from convening their weekly poker game, they took to the airwaves to socialize and discuss the news of the day. What started on a whim has quickly become one of the top-ranked podcasts in the world.

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

In this episode, we go inside Commure’s engineering org w/ Dhruv Parthasarathy (CTO @ Commure & Athelas). We cover how to push decision-making down to move faster and reduce risk, structure teams for rapid iteration, and turn customers into product co-creators. Dhruv also shares how they cultivate polymath capabilities across EPD to accelerate velocity, why scope is one of the most underrated sources of leverage in engineering, and the frameworks they use to identify compound wins. If you’re scaling an eng org, leading in a complex domain, or designing your team for speed—this episode is packed with tactical frameworks you can apply immediately.

Dhruv Parthasarathy has spent the last 8 years focused on applying modern software and machine learning techniques in healthcare. Dhruv currently serves as the CTO of Commure, HATCO, and Augmedix. In the role of CTO, he leads product, engineering, and design teams. Prior to this, Dhruv helped found Athelas which eventually merged with Commure.

In these roles, Dhruv has designed and developed end-to-end solutions for revenue cycle automation, ambient documentation, patient engagement, and at-home diagnostics for oncology.

Before this, Dhruv was the Director of Machine Learning Programs at Udacity, where he led the development of the AI, Self-Driving Car, Deep Learning, and Machine Learning Nanodegree programs.

Dhruv also worked as a Product Engineer at Udacity, where he rebuilt the main signed-in experience and was responsible for the backend development. Dhruv obtained a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2013. Following this, they pursued a Master's degree in Computer Science with a concentration in Artificial Intelligence at MIT from 2013 to 2014.

ELC Annual is the premier event for engineering leaders. This is our biggest event of the year: 1,000+ CTOs, VPs & Directors in San Francisco @ ELC Annual 2025 for two days of leadership breakthroughs, tactical peer learning & curated connections!

• How the Commure team moves with speed & momentum (3:26)
• Commure’s operational strategy / key leadership principles (4:57)
• Hiring & cultivating multi-talented individuals (7:16)
• How to optimize decision-making, push decisions down & minimize risk (8:40)
• Why speed is a core principle for building successful eng orgs (11:36)
• Getting unstuck in your decision-making as an eng team (13:07)
• Challenges faced while building a high-performing eng team in healthcare (15:47)
• Tactics for hiring less experienced engineers & bringing them up to speed (18:22)
• Customization as a product principle and how it manifests in EPD (20:55)
• Why the polymath style approach to engineering is more vital now than ever (23:47)
• Lessons learned around scope & using it to create leverage (26:06)
• Frameworks for assessing areas most likely to create a compound win (28:22)
• Rapid fire questions (30:35)

• Cinema Speculation - The long-awaited first work of nonfiction from the author of the #1 New York Times bestselling Once Upon a Time in Hollywood: a deliriously entertaining, wickedly intelligent cinema book as unique and creative as anything by Quentin Tarantino.

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

Loïc Houssier (VP Engineering @ Superhuman) shares his evolving playbook for driving velocity in eng orgs today, building product-minded teams, and cultivating product taste. We cover leading culture / mindset transformation, creating exceptional product experiences, operational excellence when product quality is increasingly subjective. Plus the evolution of productivity tools!

Loïc Houssier is an engineering executive with 20 years of leadership experience spanning startups, scale-ups, and global enterprises. He specializes in helping high-growth companies scale with speed and discipline, combining technical depth with a strong operational mindset.

He currently leads engineering at Superhuman, the most productive email app ever made, where he joined at a pivotal moment in the company’s growth. Loïc brought a new level of executional rigor — embedding a culture of speed not just in the product (where every interaction happens in under 100ms), but in how the team ships, scales, and makes decisions.

Previously, he held senior engineering roles at Productboard, Firstbase, and DocuSign, where he led global teams through platform expansion, org design, and M&A. With a background in cryptography and early experience as a security researcher, Loïc is also a frequent mentor and speaker on engineering leadership and building resilient, high-velocity teams.

ELC Annual is the premier event for engineering leaders. This is our biggest event of the year: 1,000+ CTOs, VPs & Directors in San Francisco @ ELC Annual 2025 for two days of leadership breakthroughs, tactical peer learning & curated connections!

• How Loïc built a reputation for building high-velocity engineering orgs (2:14)
• The underweighted value of board member continuity (4:58)
• Defining velocity in the AI age (6:23)
• Loïc’s evolving playbook that drives velocity (9:10)
• Implementing the velocity playbook @ Superhuman (11:04)
• An example of incorporating domain focus effectively within an eng team (12:49)
• Strategies for changing core principles / managing culture shock (16:17)
• Knowing when you made the correct change vs. signals it’s not working (19:06)
• Tools & tactics to promote a velocity mindset in engineering orgs (21:10)
• Build credibility with influential eng leaders in your org (23:37)
• Frameworks for cultivating product thinking within an eng org (27:03)
• How to cultivate great product taste inside engineering orgs (30:24)
• The importance of having a strong leader who sets the product taste standard (32:20)
• Key elements of exceptional product experiences @ Superhuman (34:34)
• Loïc’s perspective on navigating product complexity & quality expectations w/ AI (36:28)
• The future of productivity tools: paradigm shifts in AI & productivity (39:29)
• Rapid fire questions (41:20)

• Days at the Morisaki Bookshop - Satoshi Yagisawa’s moving international sensation about new beginnings, human connection, and the joy of reading.
• Zone to Win: Organizing to Compete in an Age of Disruption - Geoffrey A. Moore’s high-powered tool for driving your company above and beyond its limitations, its definitions of success, and ultimately, its competitors.

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

When Nissim Lehyani (VP of Product at Life360) used AI to build a math game for his son, he didn’t just prototype a game, he rewired how he thinks about product development and the relationship between engineering, product, and design. In this episode, Nissim shares how that personal “aha” moment sparked a shift in how his teams build, collaborate, and ship. We dive into how AI is accelerating product iteration from months to hours, why it’s time to drop the “M” from MVP, and how prototypes are replacing PRDs as the central artifact of product work. Plus how product rituals and building cadence are evolving, strategies for scaling a prototype-first workflow, and we deconstruct the “lightning pod” model and how it’s changing the dynamics of product building & EPD collaboration.

Nissim Lehyani is the Vice President of Product at Life360, where he leads product strategy for the family safety platform used by over 60 million users worldwide. With more than two decades of experience across startups, global tech companies, and entrepreneurial ventures, Nissim is known for scaling impactful products that blend technical depth with business strategy.

Prior to Life360, he was Senior Director of Product at Indeed, where he oversaw a portfolio of 13 consumer products reaching 300M+ monthly users, and led a team of 40+ product managers across global markets. Nissim previously held leadership roles at GoDaddy, where he helped 18M+ SMBs grow their businesses through strategic partnerships with Facebook, Yelp, and Google.

As a founder, he built and led two ventures: Shopial (acquired by Magento) and Urban Place, raising millions to support small businesses and entrepreneurs. He also brings deep technical roots from his engineering leadership at Cisco and early career in Israeli Military Intelligence.

Nissim is a 2024 Product Leader Award winner and active mentor in the startup ecosystem through roles at Mixpanel and SV101 by ICON. He’s passionate about user-centric innovation, data-driven growth, and the intersection of AI, engineering, and product management.

ELC Annual is the premier event for engineering leaders. This is our biggest event of the year: 1,000+ CTOs, VPs & Directors in San Francisco @ ELC Annual 2025 for two days of leadership breakthroughs, tactical peer learning & curated connections!

• How Nissin & Patrick got connected (2:19)
• Nissin’s light bulb AI moment (4:03)
• Building first & defining later (5:33)
• How AI accelerates product iteration from months to hours & fills skill gaps (6:49)
• Recognizing your AI aha moment (9:44)
• Why it’s time to drop the “M” from MVP (11:21)
• New expectations for the first iteration of a product (13:37)
• Nissim’s #1 product principle (15:56)
• Why prototyping is replacing PRDs (17:57)
• Strategies for socializing a prototype-first workflow in your org (19:54)
• Tactics for inspiring AI adoption: find one annoying thing & show vs. tell (22:22)
• Rethinking product cadence and how product rituals are evolving (24:08)
• Defining the “lightning pod” model (25:29)
• How “lightning pods” change the dynamic between engineering, product & design (27:20)
• A live AI product demo: recreating Nissim’s original aha moment (29:10)
• Iterating product in real-time (31:06)
• How Nissim evaluates code & product outcomes (33:38)
• Rapid fire questions (34:15)

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

We just launched the ELC Forum — a new space for engineering leaders to dive deeper into real challenges and get peer support It’s a discussion board (like Reddit) but focused on eng leadership. We’re sharing takeaways from recent episodes and kicking off new discussions. Plus, AMAs with guests are coming soon. See you in the Forum!

Click here to explore the forum, ask questions, & share insights and takeaways!

https://elc.community/home/forum