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In Honor of Dr. John Perkins 1931-2026

(REPRISE) Ken is pleased to welcome Lisa Sharon Harper and her new groundbreaking book, Fortune - How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It All. It all began with the results of her submission of DNA to Ancestry.com. Lisa learned of her Nigerian roots - and ancestry that extends all the way back to the onset of slavery in America in the 1600s. Lisa shares her story of awakenings, which began when she became a Christian as a high school student in Young Life. She soon learned that her new faith was inextricably linked to white Republican politics - her activist mother was horrified. At Rutgers, as an undergraduate, she was active in Campus Crusade for Christ. She encountered the writings of John Perkins. In her book, Lisa traces the history of her family tree including the Lawrences, the Weeks, and the Fortune Magee Game born in 1689. Her family lived with the heavy consequence of race laws that governed slavery and defined "whiteness" as they were written over 300 years. Jesus, Lisa reminds us, was not white; he was brown, indigenous, and colonized - and killed by Empire. Lisa has a great insight into "white fragility" - it's worse. Resistance has been weaponized. Lisa traveled with "Nuns on the Bus," uncovering the roots of the MAGA narrative. SHOW NOTES

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REPRISE - After attending a recent event featuring Dr. Jemar Tisby, I had the chance to connect with the host of that gathering, Professor Jessica Wai-Fong Wong, Associate Professor of Systematic Theology at Azusa Pacific University and author of the groundbreaking book Disordered: Holy Icons and Racial Myths.

In this episode, we reflect on that event, where Dr. Tisby shared moving stories about his relationship with the late Dr. Bill Pennell of Fuller Theological Seminary—a pioneering voice in racial awareness whose bold challenges to white evangelicalism began in the late '60s and continued for decades.

Dr. Wong, herself deeply influenced by Dr. Pennell’s legacy, joins me for a conversation that dives into the concept of whiteness as an archetype and its enduring impact on Christian theology and the history of race. Drawing from her own journey as a Chinese American woman raised in predominantly white spaces in Texas, Dr. Wong shares insights from her book, including what it means to "aspire to whiteness" and the painful experience of being cast as an "anti-icon" in a white-dominated religious context.

We also explore my own experience within a Korean megachurch in Southern California, examining how whiteness becomes synonymous with order, while everyone else—Black, brown, Asian, Jewish, or female—is often seen as a threat to it.

This is more than a theological discussion—it’s a deep dive into history, identity, and the present-day political and spiritual moment we’re all navigating. SHOW NOTES

Originally aired April 2025

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(REPRISE from AUG 2025)

Today I welcome a familiar voice and a longtime friend—Dr. Randall Balmer. Back in the day, when we were “Trinity Men,” he was “Randy” to me. Today, he’s Dr. Balmer—historian, author, professor, and one of the leading voices on religion in America. He earned his graduate degrees at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Princeton, and Union Theological Seminary, and this marks our third interview together.

Randall recently published a powerful piece in the Los Angeles Times about the 1925 Scopes Trial—often remembered as the showdown between Genesis and Darwin. He reminds us that the trial wasn’t supposed to be about evolution at all, but that’s where it landed. William Jennings Bryan thundered that “if evolution wins, Christianity goes.” Clarence Darrow countered, “It’s not Scopes on trial—it’s civilization.” Nearly a century later, the questions linger.

Randall also brings us into his latest book, America’s Best Idea: The Separation of Church and State. It’s a sweeping story—Roger Williams’s “hedge of separation,” Jefferson’s Danbury letter, Madison, Adams, and the First Amendment—all the way to today’s battles over vouchers, religious schools, and the religious right. Along the way, we’ll talk about court rulings, culture wars, and the ongoing debate over whether America is a Christian nation—or a nation that protects the freedom of every faith, and of no faith at all.

It’s always a rich conversation when Dr. Balmer joins me, and today is no exception.

Come on along with us! SHOW NOTES

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REPRISE - Ken welcomes pastor, historian, and special advisor to the President at Baylor University, Dr. Malcolm Foley. Just this month, his new book - The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why the Love of Money Is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create a New Way Forward - has just been released. Dr. Foley shares something of his faith and spiritual journey. As an undergraduate at Washington University in St. Louis, he majored in Finance and the Classics. After earning an M. Div. at Yale Divinity School, he completed his Ph.D. at Baylor. His dissertation focussed on the history of lynching in America, and the responses of African American Protestants to the horror of it all. Ken and Malcolm unpack the thesis of his new book: that racism is rooted in greed. They talk about his concept of racialized capitalism, the dominance of white supremacy, the witness of the “Church Fathers” and the biblical passages that deal with greed and wealth. In the 1987 movie Wall Street, Gordon Gekko (played by Michael Douglas) declares, “Greed is good!” Dr. Foley disagrees. He takes a deep dive into the reality of lynching and the use of violence and terror to subjugate black folks. It’s a hard look at history. They talk about Malcolm’s heroes in the movement: Martin Luther King, Malcolm X (for whom he was named), and Ida B. Wells among many others. Toward the end of their lively conversation, Ken asks Dr. Foley about the current weaponization of phrases like DEI, Woke, and CRT which do not appear in the book.

Don’t miss Malcolm’s response.

SHOW NOTES (see links to the book and more about Dr. Foley)

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On this week’s Two Kens Podcast, Ken Fong and I dive headfirst into what can only be described as a political and cultural whirlwind. Turning Point USA is in open conflict — MAGA vs. MAGA — with Candace Owens and Erica Kirk trading fire. The Hollywood Reporter is calling it a civil war on the Right. What does that fracture mean for the movement… and for the country?

We’ll unpack the renewed buzz around the Epstein files — from Julie Roys’ reporting on surprising names to the resurfacing of James Dobson and Kenneth Starr — and ask why these stories keep circling back. We also talk about Melania’s documentary, Amazon’s $40 million licensing deal, and what it signals about media, money, and influence in 2026 America.

From Dinesh D’Souza’s controversial films to Trump’s rhetoric at the National Prayer Breakfast… from ICE shake-ups to claims about “stolen elections”… to headlines declaring America in peril — we sort through the noise.

Ken and I bring our differing perspectives to the conversation. That’s the point. We talk it out — candidly, thoughtfully, sometimes passionately — but always as friends.

If you’re feeling the tension in the air and wondering what it all means, tune in. Let’s think this through together.

SHOW NOTES

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Welcome back to today’s podcast, a place where we share stories of awakenings—those moments when life disrupts the script and invites us into deeper truth, healing, and courage.

Today’s conversation is especially timely and tender. My guest is Susan Reedy, a Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in trauma recovery and resiliency. Susan works with people navigating grief and loss, traumatic experiences, life transitions, and anxiety—and she also trains other therapists in the skills of trauma-informed care, including the Trauma Resiliency Model.

Susan’s own story includes powerful awakenings: growing up in the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong, the long work of de-programming from religious control, and her early work with traumatized children. We’ll talk openly about religious trauma, a theme that shows up often on this podcast, and connect it to broader cultural and political stress many of us are carrying right now.

We’ll also revisit the Altadena fires—how quickly they spread, the scope of destruction, and the deeply human stories of loss that followed. Along the way, Susan helps us understand what trauma is, why trauma therapy matters, and what healing and wellness can actually look like after everything falls apart.

SHOW NOTES

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Today’s episode is an invitation to listen closely—to grief, to courage, and to the hard work of hope. My guest is Darcy McKenzie, a social and political activist in Minneapolis, and our conversation begins where so many lives were altered: George Floyd. Where were you when it happened? What was your response? How did it change you? Darcy answers those questions with honesty shaped by experience—growing up in rural, agricultural America; living with a tenuous relationship to the Church; and carrying the layered truths of atrocities we too often rush past, including the tragic shooting death of Renee Nicole Good.

We talk about Minneapolis in the shadow of ICE, about video evidence without a hearing, about the politics of spectacle—cowboy hats and bounty promises—and about what it means to be a military mom when the state feels like a regime. Along the way, Darcy names political heroes and builders—people like Tim Walz, Amy Klobuchar, Tina Smith, Brian O’Hare, and Paul Cumings—and asks what real leadership looks like now.

Most of all, we ask what we’re hoping for in 2026, and why optimism—clear-eyed, grounded optimism—still makes sense.

SHOW NOTES

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Welcome to Beach Talk with Betsey Newenhuyse — where we sift through the chaos and try to make sense of what’s really going on. From the heavy-handed ICE “invasion” of Minneapolis, where thousands of federal agents’ enforcement surge has sparked protests after the shootings and the unnecessary death of Renee Nicole Good. We unpack the video evidence, no hearings, and public outrage over federal power in local streets. Connecting the dots, we’ll talk about Tom Homan’s $50K bounties, Kristi Noem’s cowboy-hat politics, then on to Pete Buttigieg at the Detroit Auto Show, and Rick Wilson’s most recent commentary - “Stopping vs. Ending.” From Jerome Powell and the Fed, America First abroad, Venezuela’s leadership, Nobel chatter around María Corina Machado, to gaudy gold trim in Mar-a-Lago — it’s all here.

SHOW NOTES

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