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Today, I welcome back a great friend of the show—ethicist, professor, pastor, and prolific author, Dr. David Gushee.

Over the years, David and I have talked through several of his groundbreaking works: The Moral Teachings of Jesus, Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies, Introducing Christian Ethics, and After Evangelicalism. But today, we’re returning to the book that started a movement—Changing Our Mind—a book that, remarkably, has never stopped selling since its first release ten years ago.

Industry veteran David Crumm recently reminded us that fewer than 1 percent of all books ever reach 40,000 copies sold. Most don’t even hit 2,000. And yet Changing Our Mind continues to travel—passed hand to hand, heart to heart—because people still need it. David tells me he receives messages every week from readers whose lives have been transformed. That kind of impact is rare.

We’re diving into the story behind this book: what prompted David to write it, the initial response, and the personal price he paid. Lost invitations, Christian booksellers who wouldn’t carry his work, and critics who lined up to condemn him. But also, we talk about the courage of those who dared to praise the book—and the remarkable stories that have come back from readers.

We’ll explore the deep divides in today’s church—the boardroom wrestling matches, the “holy haters,” and the rise of Christian nationalism. And, in this Advent season, we’ll ask: What needs to come to an end? And what new future are we longing for?

We’ll also hear what David is working on now, what he’s seeing in the classroom, and what he hopes for in 2026.

Join us!

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Today we’re celebrating a very special return guest: author, speaker, and independent scholar Diana Butler Bass. If you’ve been with us before, you’ll remember our deep dive into her beautiful book Freeing Jesus. Today, Diana is back with a brand-new offering: A Beautiful Year: 52 Meditations on Faith, Wisdom, and Perseverance—a book designed to guide us through the seasons, the stories, and the spiritual rhythms that shape a life.

You’ve heard Diana’s Substack series, When? When? When? – Longing for the End of Empire. It resonated with me deeply—especially as I write in my own Substack, “When is this going to END?” It echoes Jesus’ ancient warning that even the most imposing empires—Herod’s Temple, Rome’s occupation—will crumble. Empires end, but the Kingdom of God endures. That tension—our longing for an end, and our anticipation of a new beginning—brings us right into Advent.

At seventy-seven, I’ve lived through a decade of Trump-era headlines that have stretched and wrinkled my sense of time. Diana helps us see that time is not just linear—it’s circular, liturgical, meaningful. Not the calendar I grew up with in my evangelical days, but one filled with story, metaphor, archetype, and hope. Advent reminds us: we wait for peace, for justice, for love. And when the signs appear, Jesus says, the time is near.

So join us. Diana’s spiritual kaleidoscope opens a winding, wonder-filled journey through darkness toward light. This conversation will move you—heart, mind, and spirit.

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Ken’s Substack Page

The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com

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This Thanksgiving week on Beach Talk, Betsey Newenhuyse and I pause to reflect on what keeps us grounded and grateful in turbulent times. Retirement gives us the space to see the big picture, and family, friends, and caring neighbors remind us we’re never alone. We’re grateful for like-minded resisters, meaningful conversations, and the freedom to speak up. Experience tells us storms pass, truth still matters, and a new generation is rising to shape what comes next. Acts of everyday kindness continue to defy the headlines. And through it all, hope endures—rooted in community, clarity, and the power we still hold together.

Support the show

Become a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you!

Ken’s Substack Page

The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com