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Today, I welcome back a great friend of the show—ethicist, professor, pastor, and prolific author, Dr. David Gushee.

Over the years, David and I have talked through several of his groundbreaking works: The Moral Teachings of Jesus, Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies, Introducing Christian Ethics, and After Evangelicalism. But today, we’re returning to the book that started a movement—Changing Our Mind—a book that, remarkably, has never stopped selling since its first release ten years ago.

Industry veteran David Crumm recently reminded us that fewer than 1 percent of all books ever reach 40,000 copies sold. Most don’t even hit 2,000. And yet Changing Our Mind continues to travel—passed hand to hand, heart to heart—because people still need it. David tells me he receives messages every week from readers whose lives have been transformed. That kind of impact is rare.

We’re diving into the story behind this book: what prompted David to write it, the initial response, and the personal price he paid. Lost invitations, Christian booksellers who wouldn’t carry his work, and critics who lined up to condemn him. But also, we talk about the courage of those who dared to praise the book—and the remarkable stories that have come back from readers.

We’ll explore the deep divides in today’s church—the boardroom wrestling matches, the “holy haters,” and the rise of Christian nationalism. And, in this Advent season, we’ll ask: What needs to come to an end? And what new future are we longing for?

We’ll also hear what David is working on now, what he’s seeing in the classroom, and what he hopes for in 2026.

Join us!

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