Episodes

  • Founder roasted MetaMonster for 2 hours

    Founder roasted MetaMonster for 2 hours
    Nov 26 2025
    A two-hour feedback session with the SEO Gets founder changes MetaMonster's direction. Meanwhile, Andrew realizes he's burnt out on AI and capitalism and Sean defends Spider-Man Magic cards against gatekeepers. Also: surfing vs hiking debates, fractured ankles, the three C's of career satisfaction, and why JetLag's Magic episode was terrible.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.15SeanWhat's up?00:00:02.51AndrewI miss you It's been too long.00:00:03.76SeanI miss you00:00:05.97Andrewi did that Long time. Been a long time.00:00:09.78Seantoo. Long time. Yeah.00:00:13.45zAndrewWhen did we last like actually talk other than a couple of quick Slack messages?00:00:17.87SeanLike last year, pretty much.00:00:19.81Andrewdon't think it was that long.00:00:20.14SeanThis one. My brain's in 2026 already. It's it's cold. i i look outside at like four o'clock. It's already dark.00:00:28.96AndrewMy three of my best friends in Atlanta and I have a group chat that we started when I moved here. And it's it's titled See You in 2026, which like started as a joke because like my one friend quit his job and had a little bit of travel planned. And like I had a little bit of travel planned and they, the couple in the group chat had some travel planned. And so it was just kind of a joke. And now our friend who started the group chat, who quit his job,00:00:56.88Andrewhe is currently in seoul south korea he he is actually like we're actually not going to see him until 2026 pretty much he did00:00:59.48SeanWhoa, cool.00:01:05.52SeanSorry, did you say he was in Seoul, South Korea or Seoul?00:01:10.83Andrewseoul i said seoul south korea did did fuck that up okay did i say south k-kir-olina no i maybe i did that would be wild00:01:13.50SeanOh, I don't know why heard South Carolina. That's okay. We'll go back to the tape. We'll see if I was crazy or if you were crazy. No, i've definitely misheard you. I definitely.00:01:24.85SeanWe'll go back to the tape later.00:01:25.18AndrewHe's in South Korea right now in Seoul.00:01:26.62SeanCool.00:01:27.26AndrewApparently it's cold.00:01:29.54SeanYeah.00:01:30.14AndrewI forget how far north it is, but he's...00:01:32.06Seanyou should You should ask him how crazy things were when Korea won the League Legends finals again. Yeah, kind of curious.00:01:40.80AndrewOoh, okay, will do. Yeah, he's been... But dude's been traveling all fucking over the place. I'm so happy for him.00:01:48.26SeanNice.00:01:49.12AndrewYeah, he seems like... lighter and happier which is good to see yeah yeah00:01:52.72SeanNice. That's good. That's good. Do you feel lighter and happier with less hair on your head?00:02:01.66AndrewI am uh okay the I am no is the answer I feel like I'm a bit in a uh phase that I feel like I end up in every few years where I'm like questioning and trying to rediscover my personal style. And that often starts with trying to find a haircut that I like.00:02:24.41Andrewmy My typical haircut is just like the very standard white guy, like a little bit short on the sides, a little bit slicked over on top.00:02:24.10Seanmean,00:02:33.51AndrewAnd I just, know I always come back to it and then I go, this doesn't feel like me. And then I try something else and I'm like, well, this also doesn't feel like me.00:02:43.31AndrewSo... yeah i don't know i i'm trying i'm trying a messy fringe this time thanks00:02:48.07Seanit looks good. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it looks good. I think i like it looks good. You got you got like your oversized, boxy, drop shoulder t-shirt, the haircut.00:03:00.87SeanVery trendy. Very trendy.00:03:02.34Andrewi just watched a youtube video where like three people roasted a guy for wearing a uniqlo erism like boxy t-shirt and i was like fuck i thought that00:03:08.64SeanHaters. Haters. Haters. They're so comfortable. Haters.00:03:12.39Andrewthey are so comfortable yeah00:03:12.84SeanGet over themselves. Haters. oh Yeah. Don't take me back to skinny jeans, you know? was terrible time.00:03:21.28Andrewi feel like they weren't they weren't advocating for skinny but they were also like they were basically saying if you're gonna go boxy you need to it needs to look intentional like you're intentionally trying to be boxy like if you have like one boxy thing and then one more skinny thing it can look weird And like fit still matters. And that like the most timeless look is something kind of in between. It's not like crazy baggy, but also not crazy skinny.00:03:49.69AndrewBut then that's also kind of boring. I don't know.00:03:52.68Seani think I think there's ways to make all of it work.00:03:52.83Andrewdon't know.00:03:56.37SeanIt just kind of depends on silhouette and whatnot....
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    1 hr and 14 mins
  • Magic addiction and slabbing a kid

    Magic addiction and slabbing a kid
    Oct 16 2025
    From Magic addiction to Margins updates - Sean finally talked to a customer! Andrew tried Claude Code and wasn't impressed, then gets into product ideas around workflows and flexible tables for MetaMonster. Surprise twist: the guys accidentally design a $699 productized service for MetaMonster and close the deal live on the call. Also: type 2 fun, hiking debates, and why slabbing a kid isn't what it sounds like.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:00.82SeanWhat's up?00:00:02.45AndrewNot much. Just hanging out. What's up with you?00:00:05.69SeanCool. I have blown so much money this week. and Last week.00:00:12.87AndrewOh yeah?00:00:13.75SeanYeah, yeah, yeah.00:00:15.24AndrewOn something fun, I hope?00:00:16.73Seanactually Magic the Gathering. Magic the Gathering.00:00:22.28Andrewis Are you like building a deck to play? Is this investing? Are you like trying to buy collectibles?00:00:29.29Seananyone anyone that tells you they're investing in Magic the Gathering is lying to you and themselves.00:00:29.64AndrewWhat's the...00:00:33.17SeanNo one no one invested this in cardboard. No one invested in Magic the Gathering. let me I'm sure baseball cards are are profitable in whatever way. and Yeah, I'm bill building a deck to play and also just like spending money opening packs. and i got really into it in high school.00:00:54.33Seanand I think I was like fairly okay at it. And this is my like latest like obsession, indulgence, addiction, all that stuff.00:01:05.22AndrewFor whatever reason, I never got into magic.00:01:05.37SeanYeah.00:01:06.86AndrewI was super into Pokemon, and like I was you know collected Pokemon cards like crazy back in the day, but I never...00:01:13.89SeanPokemon is huge now, by the way.00:01:15.58AndrewYeah, I know.00:01:16.30SeanYeah.00:01:16.41AndrewI i like have a couple of creators I follow on YouTube, and it is really addicting watching people open packs. and then00:01:25.44SeanIt really is.00:01:25.71AndrewI also follow, you know Coop's Collections?00:01:28.70SeanNo. No.00:01:30.08AndrewHis whole MO is just that he's like really stupid, nice to people, like mostly little kids.00:01:34.08SeanOkay.00:01:35.28AndrewAnd so like little kids, he pretty openly says he doesn't make that much money selling.00:01:35.34SeanOkay.00:01:42.13AndrewHe makes most of his money from content. And so like little kids will come up to him at shows and he'll just give away cards and stuff.00:01:44.60SeanRight. and Nice.00:01:50.93AndrewThere's a, he live streams himself at shows.00:01:53.19SeanUh-huh.00:01:54.49AndrewAnd so people will just like watch him interact.00:01:57.25SeanI see, I see.00:01:57.79AndrewAnd there's, there's someone in his community who goes by the name Sweaty Booger. That's their username. And like Sweaty Booger is famous on Goof's collections because he will often like,00:02:05.26SeanOkay.00:02:12.57Andrewdonate money so that Coop can slab a kid. There's, it's, it's pretty slab a kid, which means give them a, give them a graded card in a slab.00:02:17.17SeanWait, so he can what a kid? Slab a kid.00:02:21.67SeanSlab a kid. bla00:02:25.70Andrewyeah00:02:25.91SeanSlab a kid. Okay. Okay.00:02:27.67AndrewSlab a kid.00:02:29.37SeanThat's, uh,00:02:30.04AndrewThere's like all this funny, like, yeah, I feel like even more than some of the other YouTube shows I watch. it has very quickly, because I think he's only been doing it for a year or two, it has very quickly developed lore and, sort you know, it's its own terminology and everything.00:02:47.77SeanSure.00:02:52.03AndrewIt's funny.00:02:53.33SeanCool. Slab a kid. Okay. That is not what I thought you said. It's like sweaty boogers fucked up, man. It's almost as bad as as that Twitch streamer shocking his dog.00:03:08.04SeanOkay.00:03:05.09AndrewOh, fuck. I don't want to know about that. Don't don't tell me. i I would rather not.00:03:08.96SeanOkay. All right.00:03:10.83AndrewFuck that person is all i all I have to say.00:03:14.57AndrewI don't even know, but I don't need to know.00:03:17.61Seanokay yeah this is this is whoever's listening this is just a this is just an internet culture magic the gathering podcast now00:03:26.06AndrewOh, dude. If you want to just go deep on, like, our latest YouTube obsessions, I can i can do that any day. I've been getting really into, like,00:03:33.32Seanoh my latest youtube what is that what is00:03:35.26Andrewthe Caleb Heron world lately. He's a comedian based out of l a who's like, he is super progressive, but is from Kansas City and like grew up evangelical. And so I think he does a good job of making fun of like progressives and like the right and Caleb Heron I think is how you pronounce it ...
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • Chartjuice revival?!

    Chartjuice revival?!
    Oct 10 2025
    Andrew saw Saturn through a telescope and launched MetaMonster's new UI, but users won't activate! 🔭 Getting 1-2 daily signups with zero engagement while testing Phantom Buster for LinkedIn scraping. Sean presents his Michelin star agency framework and they debate reviving Chart Juice as a ChatGPT app. Plus: why web design agencies might be better customers than SEO agencies.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.07SeanHowdy.00:02.27AndrewHi, hi, hi.00:03.52Seanand We've had so many false starts of season four, think.00:08.60AndrewYeah, is this not season eight? I thought we were on season eight now.00:11.73SeanYou're right, you're right, you're right. It was a limited series for the first but past four seasons.00:16.07AndrewOne, two episodes.00:17.93SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. It's like those those like which TV shows did in the middle of COVID, and you know? It's like, yeah, season's over. We'll just, yeah.00:25.89AndrewYeah. I feel like I haven't talked to you in forever, and you're... so busy now that you don't even respond to my slack messages00:35.68SeanSorry. Hold on. I don't like that you said those things together because you made it sound like I'm the reason we haven't talked in forever.00:43.15Andrewyou are no no no it's like 25 true i was gallivanting in the woods for two weeks so i was away from atlanta for a month uh i was00:43.93Seanwhich Which is 75% true. didn't realize you were going for two weeks. I thought you were and that you're only... how How was it? Whoa.00:59.42Seanwell01:00.47AndrewYeah, I went in cat sit for my parents for a week. I went to Washington for two weeks, hung out with friends, went backpacking, then rented a car and drove around the Olympic Peninsula by myself, which was fucking awesome.01:13.33SeanNice.01:14.15AndrewJumped in the Pacific Ocean, jumped in Alpine Lake, climbed some sketchy mountains, saw a ton of beautiful views, walked in the rainforest, saw Saturn through a telescope.01:25.43SeanWhoa. Whoa.01:26.43AndrewIt was, yeah!01:26.92SeanWhat?01:28.38AndrewI feel like that's the one I always mention last, and that's the one that people get most excited about.01:28.45SeanYou've been like on01:32.82SeanYeah. You've had like a whole secret life of Walter Mini situation in the past.01:33.96AndrewOne night, dude, it was great.01:37.56SeanUh-huh.01:38.45AndrewI made a friend hiking down a trail one day, and she was telling me that she'd just come from this campsite and was checking the little board at the campsite and saw that the rangers were doing a telescope night.01:51.67SeanRight.01:51.74AndrewAnd so she said it was great. It was super fun. So I went and stayed at that campsite the next night. and they were doing it again and it was awesome there were like 50 or 60 people who drove up to the top of the mountain and parked and were just like walking around in the dark because you can't have white light it ruins the ability to see through the the telescope and everything it you know dampens your night vision so there were like 50 or 60 strangers02:11.72Seanright02:19.55Andrewmilling around in the dark, just quietly chatting with each other, waiting in lines to look through telescopes. And they had four huge telescopes trained at different things in the night sky. And one of the things we got to see was Saturn.02:31.90AndrewIt was like a little little tiny little tiny Saturn. it was you know these These telescopes were not big enough to blow it up. yeah We weren't looking through the James Webb Space Telescope, but it was still really cool.02:39.31SeanSure.02:42.07SeanRight.02:43.74AndrewYou could see the rings.02:43.91SeanYeah.02:44.78AndrewIt's like, holy shit, that's planet.02:45.19SeanWhoa.02:48.54SeanCool. Nice.02:49.75AndrewYeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then I was in San Diego for a week. So fully, fully my fault. there's There's at least a month in there that was fully my fault.03:01.06AndrewI'd had kind of aspirations of like, maybe I'll drive to a coffee shop and we should do like a podcast episode from a coffee shop on the Olympic Peninsula.03:01.41SeanOkay.03:10.62AndrewAnd yeah, no way that was happening.03:13.08Seanwe can We can split it fifty fifty It's both our faults.03:17.92SeanThat's cool. You ever think about like how like crazy it is that when human... like you know I understand, like okay, like you're like, oh, hey, there are things in the sky. I want to go look at things in the sky and tell magnifying glass exists. We keep stacking them. We can start to see things in the sky.03:33.30SeanAnd then just like the realization of, like oh, shit, there's more like giant balls of things out there.03:40.80AndrewThe thing that the always gets me is ...
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    55 mins
  • Doubled overnight

    Doubled overnight
    Sep 5 2025
    Andrew doubles MetaMonster customers in one week and is launching credit-based free trials! 🚀 Sean's still drowning in Miscreants growth (by the way Miscreants is hiring). Plus: LinkedIn strategy shifts, AI acquisition dynamics, and Sean just figured out what "I have to charge" actually means.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.83Seanwhats up?00:01.73AndrewHey, we back.00:01.83SeanWhere are you?00:03.17Andrewis this Is this the start of season? What season are we on? Season four?00:06.65SeanYeah, this is...00:06.70AndrewThis is season four, episode two.00:07.29Seanthis is00:08.18AndrewAre we going to bury episode one forever and make it our new Lost Tapes? Or are we going to, do you want me to release it? Make a decision right now?00:17.64Seanfeel like... It seems like you want to bury it so we can bury it.00:20.54AndrewYeah, kind of.00:21.32SeanYeah. Okay.00:22.37AndrewI feel like I just rambled for 30 minutes.00:22.55SeanYeah. We can bury it.00:24.88AndrewAnd I was also like, You definitely caught me on the downturn of the startup roller coaster like mental cycle. And i'm I'm feeling more positive this week.00:33.35Seanand00:35.37AndrewSo let's start on a good note.00:35.99SeanCool. There was no such thing as everyone. Cool. Done. Easy. Yeah. Great. How you doing? Where where are you? This is not the usual background.00:45.64AndrewI am it no, no. I'm in Columbia, South Carolina, cat sitting for my parents. My parents are jet setting around Europe, living their retired life to the fullest.00:52.21SeanNice.00:56.16SeanCool.00:57.40AndrewMy German aunt is getting remarried this week.01:01.31SeanSweet.01:01.43AndrewSo there went to London and then Amsterdam and then Germany. And then they're going to Denmark on a joint honeymoon with my aunt and her new husband.01:11.16SeanOkay.01:12.08AndrewYeah.01:14.89SeanJoint honeymoon. Cool. Okay.01:17.32Andrewyeah01:17.56SeanI've never heard that term like used before, but that makes sense.01:20.53AndrewIt's not real. Like they, they actually got married a few months ago and this is just like the wedding celebration.01:22.25SeanCool.01:25.98AndrewAnd so they just wanted to go on a weekend trip with my parents. And so I've been joking with my mom that she's going on Giese's honeymoon with her, but that's not really what's happening.01:30.24SeanCool.01:39.13AndrewI'm cat sitting, hanging out with Ruthie.01:38.82SeanCool.01:41.76SeanNice. Nice, nice.01:42.69AndrewYeah. My cat's got it.01:44.03SeanI'm going to a wedding.01:45.87AndrewHuh?01:46.59SeanI'm going to a wedding.01:47.80AndrewOh, fun.01:49.23SeanYeah, but tell about your cat first. What what about Ruthie?01:51.29AndrewOh, I was just going to say earlier this year, my mom got a, what she calls her resistance cat. cat's name is RBG, uh, and we call her Ruthie.01:58.81SeanOh, nice. Nice.02:00.38AndrewSo she's adorable. Big fan.02:02.45SeanCool. Oh, cool. Hope she also lives to like 90 something.02:06.11AndrewI hope so too.02:08.05SeanYeah, i'm going I'm going to like my first wedding ever because it's not even a wedding.02:12.32AndrewOh my God. How is this your first wedding? I've, I feel like I've been going to weddings nonstop for the last 10 years.02:21.16Seanmaybe this is the start to that.02:21.12AndrewMaybe this is like, maybe, yeah, we are different ages, which I forget often.02:24.29SeanYeah.02:28.09AndrewI'm old and getting older every day.02:29.42SeanYeah.02:32.45SeanYou don't look a day over 40, my friend.02:38.06Andrewi also wonder if it's partially a New York thing versus a like growing up in the Southeast thing. If my friends got married young.02:42.58SeanNo, just my asshole friends just don't like there's like fuck a wedding. We just got married and didn't tell you. And then and then like that's that's all.02:50.31AndrewTo be fair, that's kind of what I want to do. I think I i want to elope with just like parents and then and then throw a big ass party because I do not want to pay the wedding markup.02:53.65SeanSee. This is.02:58.78SeanNice.03:01.40AndrewI'm not about that life.03:01.77SeanYeah, fair. I think um fair. I think um this, these friends, he's a summer camp friend from like high school and just always kept in touch for years.03:09.81AndrewOh, no way. That's cool.03:12.25Seanloosely, loosely. They also got married in middle of COVID and they just never actually had like a wedding-esque party. So this isn't even, technically I've never been to it.03:22.42SeanWell, think my cousin got married when I was really young. So I think I've been there, but outside of like, actually as a brain functioning adult, like I've never seen people consummate their marriage or whatever the that's ...
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    44 mins
  • Season 4! Repositioning MetaMonster and Miscreant's explosive growth

    Season 4! Repositioning MetaMonster and Miscreant's explosive growth
    Sep 5 2025
    Andrew moved to Atlanta and is going all-in on MetaMonster while Sean drowns in Miscreants sales calls! 🚀 They dive into repositioning struggles, the push vs pull dilemma, and why lead magnets might be the answer. Plus: DEF CON madness, Webflow disasters, and someone made an AI review of MetaMonster.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.50SeanWhat's up?00:02.12AndrewWhat up, man?00:02.99SeanLong time. Yeah.00:04.19AndrewHas been a long time. When was the last one of these we did? Like, at least six weeks ago.00:08.07SeanThe last... I think the last one we did, you interviewed someone else. I was replaced.00:12.88AndrewOh, with Louie. OK.00:14.20SeanYeah. Yeah. That was good one. That good.00:16.73AndrewYeah, that was fun.00:17.87SeanYeah.00:19.34AndrewIt has horrible ah ah stats on Transistor. I haven't checked the YouTube stats.00:24.88SeanOh. but They just like me. You know? They...00:28.93AndrewLet's see.00:30.81AndrewLet's see, let's see. What? Has anyone listened to this?00:36.56SeanYou know we got 51.00:36.86AndrewOh, wow.00:37.08SeanUh-huh.00:38.26Andrewoh wow. Our latest videos are not doing well. But to be fair,00:44.08SeanInternally.00:44.66Andrewyeah that episode, lol, I heard heard our autoplay video.00:45.51SeanMm-hmm.00:49.74SeanOh.00:51.90Andrew43 whole views on on that that episode.00:55.21SeanNot bad. Yeah.00:58.62AndrewWe're we're killing it.01:00.08SeanYeah. ah But we got 51 subscribers, so, like, i don't know.01:05.20AndrewDo we really?01:06.10SeanYeah, 51 subscribers on YouTube.01:08.78AndrewThis is not going to be interesting to anyone listening. Like, we're the only ones who give a fuck how many YouTube subscribers we have.01:11.100SeanYeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sorry everyone.01:15.36AndrewAlso, 50 is such a silly number.01:17.60SeanYeah.01:19.98AndrewYeah.01:20.46SeanCan't wait for my 50 subscriber YouTube play button.01:23.16SeanIt's a cardboard with a little poop stain on it.01:30.36AndrewYeah, a lot has changed since we last chatted and also not a lot has changed.01:33.88SeanMm-hmm.01:35.94AndrewI am now living in Atlanta.01:39.28SeanAnd you're leaving me.01:41.66Andrewand Well, just like we're not breaking up.01:43.04SeanWe're breaking up.01:45.78AndrewWe're going on a break. It's different.01:47.22Seanwow Can I see other people?01:50.18AndrewYeah, sure.01:52.08SeanWe're breaking up. We're broken up. It's okay. It's okay. I'm happy for you. Anything I'm jealous.01:57.43Andrewyeah so I'm living in Atlanta. I was, I working with scout last time we talked. to02:03.08SeanNot on the podcast, I think.02:05.94AndrewOkay.02:06.60SeanYeah.02:07.80AndrewI have a new client. it's been a lot of fun. They're in, uh, you an AI agent platform for sales teams.02:15.37SeanYeah.02:16.28Andrewand, uh, I'm basically a fractional CMO, which has been really fun. So I'm like, you hiring agencies and contractors and building marketing processes and trying to figure out how to, how to drive leads.02:30.29Andrewgot to bring in a friends agency. That's going super well. metamonster like, it's not like not going at all. Like I'm having it a couple of conversations a week probably, but, uh, they are not turning into customers. So,02:49.04Andrewgotta figure some shit out there which is why i'm talking about taking a break from miscreants work for a little while to focus on metamonster yeah i don't know where do you want to start03:02.24SeanLet's start, I mean, I don't know, let's talk about MetaMonster. Let's talk about like i feel like, I feel like we're chatting on Slack about like, you know, lead magnets and whether or not you have to nurture folks, you know, it feels like the people that are but you're speaking to are like interested but not ready to like buy or try.03:20.75Seanare they Are they like, are you giving them a trial or03:24.94AndrewYeah, so03:27.06Andrewwe... Okay, so since we last spoke, we updated the Metamonster positioning. So we were calling ourselves like an SEO web crawler and sort of a ah ah site audit tool.03:34.32SeanMm-hmm.03:42.18AndrewWe've tried to move away from that to more of like an SEO automation platform. our new so our new h one um scale on page seo optimization with ai and we're trying to sort of position ourselves against like chat gpt and manual processes and you know we didn't we didn't go for like a category because i don't know that ah seo automation platform is like an established category today so i wasn't i wasn't sure that would be widely recognized enough to resonate with people so we04:18.45SeanYeah.04:19.95Andrewsort of just have this like use case positioning and then we talk you know ah try to position ourselves against like doing seo work manually...
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    52 mins
  • Louis Nicholls on the future of SaaS and the top 5 rom coms of all time

    Louis Nicholls on the future of SaaS and the top 5 rom coms of all time
    Jun 20 2025
    We've got a special guest on the pod today! Louis from Sparkloop joins to share how they evolved from referrals to recommendations and sold to Kit! 🚀 Meanwhile Andrew gets Louis's take on MetaMonster's positioning struggles and they debate how and why the SaaS landscape is changing. Plus: the most detailed rom-com ranking you've ever heard, featuring hidden gems and heated debates about classics.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Louis's Twitter: @louisnicholls_Sparkloop (newsletter recommendations platform): https://sparkloop.app/Grow your newsletter: https://www.growmynewsletter.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.03AndrewHey, what's up, man?00:00:02.44LouisHey man, how's it going? It's been a while.00:00:04.43AndrewIt has. Astute listeners might notice that you are not Sean Sun, founder of Miscreants. Do you want to introduce yourself real quick?00:00:13.90LouisYeah, my name Louis. I am the co-founder of Sparkloop. I'm a huge rom-com enthusiast, which I think we're going to get to later. and00:00:23.11AndrewHell yeah.00:00:24.25LouisI guess I'm a probably more of like a reformed indie hacker. People might know me from that, but more likely nowadays, if you're a newsletter nerd in the newsletter space, you probably have come across Sparkloop or maybe seen me online or something like that.00:00:41.21AndrewReformed. Does that mean you don't identify as an indie hacker anymore?00:00:44.76LouisOh, no, no, I do. I just don't hang out in the as much in like the IndieHack bootstrap founder space anymore. my My Twitter and LinkedIn have been taken over by self-interested business interests of talking about newsletters, which is a lot more lucrative.00:00:51.89AndrewYeah.00:00:59.73LouisYeah.00:00:59.94AndrewYeah. So, okay. How long ago now did you sell Sparkloop? How long has it been?00:01:06.67LouisWe sold just over two years ago. We were bought by then ConvertKit, now Kit, which I think we...00:01:10.16AndrewOkay.00:01:14.78LouisDid we talk about this shortly before or shortly? Maybe we met shortly after, actually, I think.00:01:19.18AndrewI think both.00:01:20.17AndrewI think we, you and i met in New York. I was working for Grey Noise at the time. And you told me, i don't remember if you actually told me it was ConvertKit. I think you told me you were like considering an acquisition and that there was some stuff in the works.00:01:31.86LouisHmm.00:01:33.80AndrewAnd then I think we hung out again, last year sometime after you'd sold to ConvertKit, when I was like starting to, oh yeah, because like last December, you and i were actually talking about like maybe collabing on some stuff.00:01:48.50LouisYeah.00:01:49.80LouisYeah, yeah,00:01:50.82AndrewI quoted you some ridiculously high number to do something. I don't even remember what exactly. like I think some of the like personal brand stuff that you've started doing, was going to help with some of that maybe.00:02:01.79Louisyeah. Mm-hmm.00:02:03.39AndrewAnd then then, yeah, I think I probably talked to you to just like ask you for some startup advice at some point, which I'm now doing again under the guise of having you on as a podcast guest.00:02:15.33LouisIt's the the best way to do it. i yeah I remember we were, i think the last time we properly talked was actually not about about this startup at all. It was about the in-email charts thing, I think, was the last time we had like a proper long conversation.00:02:33.24AndrewYeah, good memory. I'm impressed that you remember what it even was. Yeah, that was ChartJuice. was I think at the time it was probably ChartKit.00:02:42.64LouisMm-hmm.00:02:43.87AndrewAnd then had a co-founder, he left, and he owned the domain, so I bought chartjuice.com. And then...00:02:54.82AndrewBuilt it, probably shouldn't have ever built it. Like, I don't think it was like ever really a great market. But I did the classic indie hacker thing where I was like, I kind of just want to build something and I wanted to learn to code again.00:03:08.23AndrewAnd Chart Juice felt very like not intimidating. It felt easy to build. And so I spent a few months building it, launched it to Crickets and then was like, all right, I need to actually build something that I think people will buy now And so, yeah.00:03:22.97LouisAlways a oh it a good idea. I wish you had, with a name like Chart Juice, it wasn't called Chart Juice at the time, but a name like Chart Juice, that deserves to be a podcast growth agency.00:03:30.27AndrewYeah.00:03:35.87LouisThere should be a podcast growth agency called Chart Juice out there.00:03:39.11AndrewHonestly, that is so true. Someone has like a, someone has a oh, it's, it's a productized service that will submit your startup to a bunch of directories.00:03:54.29AndrewAnd it's called like submit juice or something like that.00:03:54.53Louissee00:03:...
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    1 hr and 42 mins
  • Black Hat deadline madness, AI-powered content tactics, and the auth provider dilemma

    Black Hat deadline madness, AI-powered content tactics, and the auth provider dilemma
    Jun 12 2025
    Sean survives on 1.5 hours of sleep while juggling Black Hat submissions and client launches! 😴 Andrew discovers a new MetaMonster content strategy and shows off the new grid UI that's generating page titles and scoring them for engagement. Plus: should you delegate your therapy homework to Claude (hint: no), auth provider decision paralysis, and why internal linking breaks the table concept.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.81SeanOh, you stopped.00:03.40AndrewYeah, that would be the most obnoxious sound in the world. I was doing the, like, little kid exasperated sound.00:10.45SeanYeah, yeah. What is that? What do you, what do you, how do you, like, what is the English phrase for that?00:16.64Andrewhave no fucking clue.00:17.80SeanIt's not like rolling your R's, but it's like blubbering.00:21.54AndrewIt's like flapping your lips. I don't know.00:23.97SeanI guess.00:23.99AndrewI was doing this. Pfft.00:26.94SeanThat's a thumbnail.00:28.02AndrewOh, God.00:28.21SeanThat's good.00:28.89AndrewJesus.00:32.72SeanThat's a good thumbnail. I'm going to have Jonah try that out. We'll see how it performs.00:36.82AndrewTry what?00:37.93SeanYou just blubbered.00:40.08AndrewPlease no.00:40.97SeanOkay.00:43.70SeanHow you doing? how's how's How's it going?00:48.00AndrewI'm good. I just pushed out a YouTube video, LinkedIn video for Metamonster.00:54.94SeanNice.00:55.68Andrewi I think this is maybe going to be a ah new tactic is I saw um like an SEO influencer type share something about how AI overviews really like structured schema.01:12.35AndrewAnd so I was like, dope. I'm going to go write a prompt to create structured schema in the new MetaMonster UI, record myself doing it, tag this person in the post,01:22.19SeanCool.01:24.43SeanSick.01:24.60Andrewand like shout them out in the video. And then did comment on my post. i don't yeah know They didn't share it or anything, but they commented on my post.01:30.77SeanSick.01:33.39AndrewAnd so that was kind of cool. And I'm like, I think this is probably a good tactic to follow is just like take the things that people are talking about and just record short videos showing how you can use MetaMonster to execute on them.01:38.71SeanYeah, 100%.01:47.17SeanYeah, all all of that makes perfect sense. that like01:49.42AndrewYeah.01:50.67Seanthat That feels like exactly what to do to grow Metamonster.01:54.27AndrewYeah. Yeah.01:55.81SeanIn fact, I would not be surprised if that was the way grew your user base to your first 500 to 1,000 this point. Yet, yet, to to ah thousand at this point so02:06.85AndrewMaybe. i mean, no one is watching, like, our videos aren't getting any, yeah, any views.02:09.98Seanyes yet yeah02:12.87AndrewAnd, like, my like LinkedIn, most of the people liking my LinkedIn posts about Metamonster have been, like, my friends. So I haven't gotten, yeah.02:22.08Seanyet yeah i think you need you need one you know ah ah you need like02:26.86AndrewYeah, you need one to go viral-ish in the SEO world. And you need, yeah, I just need to stick with it and...02:33.43Seanyeah plus i mean the content just gets reused so for the blog anyway or or the website anyway so yeah um i absolutely yeah but that sounds perfectly correct to me that's02:45.76AndrewYeah. I also, um i so I recorded this one today with Screen Studio, was fun to play around with. I like some parts of it a lot. I found myself really wishing, though, that it would generate a transcript like Loom does.02:59.46Andrewcan probably use, like, a transcript generator. I can just find something like that. But the reason is, i have gotten alex from like Lex like Lex.page set up pretty well.03:12.97Andrewprobably do it in Claude too. But I've got it generating pretty good marketing emails based off of video transcripts. And so it's been like a really nice way to like just, you know, reuse content as I record the video.03:30.97AndrewAnd then I upload the transcript to Lex and I have Lex generate a, generate a marketing email, I edit that email, and then I copy it over to loops and send it out to the Metamonster list.03:47.74AndrewSo I've also been thinking about playing around with some of the automation tools to see if I could actually automate that whole flow.03:50.05SeanCool.03:56.02AndrewAnd it would still be, like, human in the loop because I want to edit it before it goes into loops.04:00.35SeanYeah.04:00.43AndrewBut, like, even if it created it as a draft in loops, I could then go to loops and edit it there.04:04.58SeanYeah. 100%. 100.04:08.89Seanhundred percent and04:10.32AndrewSo...04:12.64SeanYeah, 100%. um I always, well, okay. Sorry, 100%, you can do that. I always struggle with the idea of doing ...
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    44 mins
  • When Webflow goes down

    When Webflow goes down
    Jun 6 2025
    Pre-Black Hat crunch time hits Miscreants hard as brand audits pile up and Webflow goes down for half a day. Andrew's new MetaMonster grid shows AI's bipolar nature - brilliant one moment, baffling the next. 🤖 Plus: positioning challenges, category creation in the AI era, and why Poboy the cat makes a terrible hide-and-seek player.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.03SeanWhat's up?00:02.39AndrewYour energy is different after we hit record than it was before.00:06.79SeanI know, I gotta turn it on I gotta turn on for the podcast.00:10.99AndrewWhat's going on, man?00:12.23SeanI can't believe we both just went like double peace signs on an audio podcast, by the way.00:12.40Andrewyou're a00:17.63AndrewWe have video now, Sean.00:19.07SeanWe do, we do, and do. We have great intros.00:20.91AndrewIf if somebody would ever approve the latest videos to go live, then we would have even more video.00:27.34SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that sounds like That sounds like a job for someone.00:33.60AndrewOh, hey, we have a new episode up.00:34.09Seanand00:36.53AndrewSomeone finally approved something.00:36.57SeanYeah. Yeah. I'm working on it.00:40.65AndrewAll right.00:40.64SeanI'm doing it. It just sounds like a job for someone who doesn't have 30 hours of meetings a week right now. So...00:46.70AndrewJesus Christ. Yeah, I'm not going to lie I've been trying to meet with you and JJ at the same time lately and trying to find overlap where neither of you has a meeting is almost impossible.01:00.43Seanit is It is pretty much impossible.01:00.69AndrewOh, boy, you sure you want to go out? Can we pause real quick?01:05.95SeanYeah, sure. OK, we'll come back. No problem.01:09.12AndrewThank you, thank you. Po'boy wanted out of the office, but also Wally, guy who works on our house, over. And so then Po'boy was immediately terrified and regretted his choice to leave the office and ran and hid under the covers of the bed.01:26.62SeanGotcha.01:27.14AndrewIt's pretty funny and kind of adorable. Like when our cat wants to hide from something, he just hides under the covers and it's like the most obvious lump in the entire world. So it's a completely ineffective hiding place, but he feels safe because he can't see anything.01:42.68SeanLook, man, if I can't see you, you can't see me. That's how it works.01:45.72AndrewHe's an adorable, dumb little fuckhead and I appreciate him.01:46.52SeanThat's01:52.19Seanthe...01:53.48AndrewYeah. Yeah, yeah. Trying to get time on your calendar right now is tough.01:58.27Seanyeah Yeah, same. Me too. It's like you start the day with yesterday's to-do list, you have a bunch of meetings, and you end the day with a new compounded to-do list, and then02:11.16AndrewSo what's going on? I thought i thought you were like removing yourself from a lot of client work. And yeah, what are all these meetings?02:18.30Seanah so i am ish but i also am not because it's pre-blackhat crunch time and i really have like i think i need to be there like to help you just get things across the finish line we launched a site last week we just launched a site that today we launched a site like the week before we're another monthly sprint to launch like two more sites02:45.30SeanYeah. Plus every single client wants a brand audit because, you know, they work with us at the early stage. We built, we built them a brand. It works really well for the first phase and they all reach a point where like they need to advance it, which is fine. It's normal. It happens with every single client. They just all consolidated onto the same last couple of weeks.03:07.59AndrewInteresting.03:07.84SeanSo03:08.03AndrewSo you're actually doing a brand audit of your own branding work?03:11.43Seanyes.03:12.20AndrewHuh. That's kind of cool.03:13.24SeanYes. Yeah. Well, it's because like...03:18.53AndrewSort of seems like a racket, but...03:22.74SeanFair. Fair. I mean, it's not like we're charging for them. So it's part of the retainer.03:26.12AndrewWait, why are you not charging for them?03:27.78SeanIt's part of the retainer. It's part of...03:29.03AndrewOh, okay, okay, okay, okay.03:29.02SeanIt's, its you know...03:30.39Andrewokay03:30.35SeanYeah, yeah, yeah.03:30.90AndrewYeah, yeah, yeah.03:32.56SeanIt's like it's time to evolve.03:33.04AndrewYou're charging for them, but you're not charging separately for them.03:36.84SeanYeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.03:37.60AndrewOkay. Okay.03:38.75SeanSo it's like half a racket. No, it's, it's ah a you know, when you are in early stage company, you are asking for very specific things to get you up and running, right?03:48.30AndrewYeah.03:49.09Seanand And over, you know, a year or so as you grow, like, lore gets ...
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    48 mins