Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins cover art

Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

By: Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
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 Two agency owners and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.© 2025 Sean Sun and Andrew Askins Economics Leadership Management & Leadership
Episodes
  • Founder roasted MetaMonster for 2 hours

    Founder roasted MetaMonster for 2 hours
    Nov 26 2025
    A two-hour feedback session with the SEO Gets founder changes MetaMonster's direction. Meanwhile, Andrew realizes he's burnt out on AI and capitalism and Sean defends Spider-Man Magic cards against gatekeepers. Also: surfing vs hiking debates, fractured ankles, the three C's of career satisfaction, and why JetLag's Magic episode was terrible.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.15SeanWhat's up?00:00:02.51AndrewI miss you It's been too long.00:00:03.76SeanI miss you00:00:05.97Andrewi did that Long time. Been a long time.00:00:09.78Seantoo. Long time. Yeah.00:00:13.45zAndrewWhen did we last like actually talk other than a couple of quick Slack messages?00:00:17.87SeanLike last year, pretty much.00:00:19.81Andrewdon't think it was that long.00:00:20.14SeanThis one. My brain's in 2026 already. It's it's cold. i i look outside at like four o'clock. It's already dark.00:00:28.96AndrewMy three of my best friends in Atlanta and I have a group chat that we started when I moved here. And it's it's titled See You in 2026, which like started as a joke because like my one friend quit his job and had a little bit of travel planned. And like I had a little bit of travel planned and they, the couple in the group chat had some travel planned. And so it was just kind of a joke. And now our friend who started the group chat, who quit his job,00:00:56.88Andrewhe is currently in seoul south korea he he is actually like we're actually not going to see him until 2026 pretty much he did00:00:59.48SeanWhoa, cool.00:01:05.52SeanSorry, did you say he was in Seoul, South Korea or Seoul?00:01:10.83Andrewseoul i said seoul south korea did did fuck that up okay did i say south k-kir-olina no i maybe i did that would be wild00:01:13.50SeanOh, I don't know why heard South Carolina. That's okay. We'll go back to the tape. We'll see if I was crazy or if you were crazy. No, i've definitely misheard you. I definitely.00:01:24.85SeanWe'll go back to the tape later.00:01:25.18AndrewHe's in South Korea right now in Seoul.00:01:26.62SeanCool.00:01:27.26AndrewApparently it's cold.00:01:29.54SeanYeah.00:01:30.14AndrewI forget how far north it is, but he's...00:01:32.06Seanyou should You should ask him how crazy things were when Korea won the League Legends finals again. Yeah, kind of curious.00:01:40.80AndrewOoh, okay, will do. Yeah, he's been... But dude's been traveling all fucking over the place. I'm so happy for him.00:01:48.26SeanNice.00:01:49.12AndrewYeah, he seems like... lighter and happier which is good to see yeah yeah00:01:52.72SeanNice. That's good. That's good. Do you feel lighter and happier with less hair on your head?00:02:01.66AndrewI am uh okay the I am no is the answer I feel like I'm a bit in a uh phase that I feel like I end up in every few years where I'm like questioning and trying to rediscover my personal style. And that often starts with trying to find a haircut that I like.00:02:24.41Andrewmy My typical haircut is just like the very standard white guy, like a little bit short on the sides, a little bit slicked over on top.00:02:24.10Seanmean,00:02:33.51AndrewAnd I just, know I always come back to it and then I go, this doesn't feel like me. And then I try something else and I'm like, well, this also doesn't feel like me.00:02:43.31AndrewSo... yeah i don't know i i'm trying i'm trying a messy fringe this time thanks00:02:48.07Seanit looks good. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it looks good. I think i like it looks good. You got you got like your oversized, boxy, drop shoulder t-shirt, the haircut.00:03:00.87SeanVery trendy. Very trendy.00:03:02.34Andrewi just watched a youtube video where like three people roasted a guy for wearing a uniqlo erism like boxy t-shirt and i was like fuck i thought that00:03:08.64SeanHaters. Haters. Haters. They're so comfortable. Haters.00:03:12.39Andrewthey are so comfortable yeah00:03:12.84SeanGet over themselves. Haters. oh Yeah. Don't take me back to skinny jeans, you know? was terrible time.00:03:21.28Andrewi feel like they weren't they weren't advocating for skinny but they were also like they were basically saying if you're gonna go boxy you need to it needs to look intentional like you're intentionally trying to be boxy like if you have like one boxy thing and then one more skinny thing it can look weird And like fit still matters. And that like the most timeless look is something kind of in between. It's not like crazy baggy, but also not crazy skinny.00:03:49.69AndrewBut then that's also kind of boring. I don't know.00:03:52.68Seani think I think there's ways to make all of it work.00:03:52.83Andrewdon't know.00:03:56.37SeanIt just kind of depends on silhouette and whatnot....
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    1 hr and 14 mins
  • Magic addiction and slabbing a kid

    Magic addiction and slabbing a kid
    Oct 16 2025
    From Magic addiction to Margins updates - Sean finally talked to a customer! Andrew tried Claude Code and wasn't impressed, then gets into product ideas around workflows and flexible tables for MetaMonster. Surprise twist: the guys accidentally design a $699 productized service for MetaMonster and close the deal live on the call. Also: type 2 fun, hiking debates, and why slabbing a kid isn't what it sounds like.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:00.82SeanWhat's up?00:00:02.45AndrewNot much. Just hanging out. What's up with you?00:00:05.69SeanCool. I have blown so much money this week. and Last week.00:00:12.87AndrewOh yeah?00:00:13.75SeanYeah, yeah, yeah.00:00:15.24AndrewOn something fun, I hope?00:00:16.73Seanactually Magic the Gathering. Magic the Gathering.00:00:22.28Andrewis Are you like building a deck to play? Is this investing? Are you like trying to buy collectibles?00:00:29.29Seananyone anyone that tells you they're investing in Magic the Gathering is lying to you and themselves.00:00:29.64AndrewWhat's the...00:00:33.17SeanNo one no one invested this in cardboard. No one invested in Magic the Gathering. let me I'm sure baseball cards are are profitable in whatever way. and Yeah, I'm bill building a deck to play and also just like spending money opening packs. and i got really into it in high school.00:00:54.33Seanand I think I was like fairly okay at it. And this is my like latest like obsession, indulgence, addiction, all that stuff.00:01:05.22AndrewFor whatever reason, I never got into magic.00:01:05.37SeanYeah.00:01:06.86AndrewI was super into Pokemon, and like I was you know collected Pokemon cards like crazy back in the day, but I never...00:01:13.89SeanPokemon is huge now, by the way.00:01:15.58AndrewYeah, I know.00:01:16.30SeanYeah.00:01:16.41AndrewI i like have a couple of creators I follow on YouTube, and it is really addicting watching people open packs. and then00:01:25.44SeanIt really is.00:01:25.71AndrewI also follow, you know Coop's Collections?00:01:28.70SeanNo. No.00:01:30.08AndrewHis whole MO is just that he's like really stupid, nice to people, like mostly little kids.00:01:34.08SeanOkay.00:01:35.28AndrewAnd so like little kids, he pretty openly says he doesn't make that much money selling.00:01:35.34SeanOkay.00:01:42.13AndrewHe makes most of his money from content. And so like little kids will come up to him at shows and he'll just give away cards and stuff.00:01:44.60SeanRight. and Nice.00:01:50.93AndrewThere's a, he live streams himself at shows.00:01:53.19SeanUh-huh.00:01:54.49AndrewAnd so people will just like watch him interact.00:01:57.25SeanI see, I see.00:01:57.79AndrewAnd there's, there's someone in his community who goes by the name Sweaty Booger. That's their username. And like Sweaty Booger is famous on Goof's collections because he will often like,00:02:05.26SeanOkay.00:02:12.57Andrewdonate money so that Coop can slab a kid. There's, it's, it's pretty slab a kid, which means give them a, give them a graded card in a slab.00:02:17.17SeanWait, so he can what a kid? Slab a kid.00:02:21.67SeanSlab a kid. bla00:02:25.70Andrewyeah00:02:25.91SeanSlab a kid. Okay. Okay.00:02:27.67AndrewSlab a kid.00:02:29.37SeanThat's, uh,00:02:30.04AndrewThere's like all this funny, like, yeah, I feel like even more than some of the other YouTube shows I watch. it has very quickly, because I think he's only been doing it for a year or two, it has very quickly developed lore and, sort you know, it's its own terminology and everything.00:02:47.77SeanSure.00:02:52.03AndrewIt's funny.00:02:53.33SeanCool. Slab a kid. Okay. That is not what I thought you said. It's like sweaty boogers fucked up, man. It's almost as bad as as that Twitch streamer shocking his dog.00:03:08.04SeanOkay.00:03:05.09AndrewOh, fuck. I don't want to know about that. Don't don't tell me. i I would rather not.00:03:08.96SeanOkay. All right.00:03:10.83AndrewFuck that person is all i all I have to say.00:03:14.57AndrewI don't even know, but I don't need to know.00:03:17.61Seanokay yeah this is this is whoever's listening this is just a this is just an internet culture magic the gathering podcast now00:03:26.06AndrewOh, dude. If you want to just go deep on, like, our latest YouTube obsessions, I can i can do that any day. I've been getting really into, like,00:03:33.32Seanoh my latest youtube what is that what is00:03:35.26Andrewthe Caleb Heron world lately. He's a comedian based out of l a who's like, he is super progressive, but is from Kansas City and like grew up evangelical. And so I think he does a good job of making fun of like progressives and like the right and Caleb Heron I think is how you pronounce it ...
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • Chartjuice revival?!

    Chartjuice revival?!
    Oct 10 2025
    Andrew saw Saturn through a telescope and launched MetaMonster's new UI, but users won't activate! 🔭 Getting 1-2 daily signups with zero engagement while testing Phantom Buster for LinkedIn scraping. Sean presents his Michelin star agency framework and they debate reviving Chart Juice as a ChatGPT app. Plus: why web design agencies might be better customers than SEO agencies.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.07SeanHowdy.00:02.27AndrewHi, hi, hi.00:03.52Seanand We've had so many false starts of season four, think.00:08.60AndrewYeah, is this not season eight? I thought we were on season eight now.00:11.73SeanYou're right, you're right, you're right. It was a limited series for the first but past four seasons.00:16.07AndrewOne, two episodes.00:17.93SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. It's like those those like which TV shows did in the middle of COVID, and you know? It's like, yeah, season's over. We'll just, yeah.00:25.89AndrewYeah. I feel like I haven't talked to you in forever, and you're... so busy now that you don't even respond to my slack messages00:35.68SeanSorry. Hold on. I don't like that you said those things together because you made it sound like I'm the reason we haven't talked in forever.00:43.15Andrewyou are no no no it's like 25 true i was gallivanting in the woods for two weeks so i was away from atlanta for a month uh i was00:43.93Seanwhich Which is 75% true. didn't realize you were going for two weeks. I thought you were and that you're only... how How was it? Whoa.00:59.42Seanwell01:00.47AndrewYeah, I went in cat sit for my parents for a week. I went to Washington for two weeks, hung out with friends, went backpacking, then rented a car and drove around the Olympic Peninsula by myself, which was fucking awesome.01:13.33SeanNice.01:14.15AndrewJumped in the Pacific Ocean, jumped in Alpine Lake, climbed some sketchy mountains, saw a ton of beautiful views, walked in the rainforest, saw Saturn through a telescope.01:25.43SeanWhoa. Whoa.01:26.43AndrewIt was, yeah!01:26.92SeanWhat?01:28.38AndrewI feel like that's the one I always mention last, and that's the one that people get most excited about.01:28.45SeanYou've been like on01:32.82SeanYeah. You've had like a whole secret life of Walter Mini situation in the past.01:33.96AndrewOne night, dude, it was great.01:37.56SeanUh-huh.01:38.45AndrewI made a friend hiking down a trail one day, and she was telling me that she'd just come from this campsite and was checking the little board at the campsite and saw that the rangers were doing a telescope night.01:51.67SeanRight.01:51.74AndrewAnd so she said it was great. It was super fun. So I went and stayed at that campsite the next night. and they were doing it again and it was awesome there were like 50 or 60 people who drove up to the top of the mountain and parked and were just like walking around in the dark because you can't have white light it ruins the ability to see through the the telescope and everything it you know dampens your night vision so there were like 50 or 60 strangers02:11.72Seanright02:19.55Andrewmilling around in the dark, just quietly chatting with each other, waiting in lines to look through telescopes. And they had four huge telescopes trained at different things in the night sky. And one of the things we got to see was Saturn.02:31.90AndrewIt was like a little little tiny little tiny Saturn. it was you know these These telescopes were not big enough to blow it up. yeah We weren't looking through the James Webb Space Telescope, but it was still really cool.02:39.31SeanSure.02:42.07SeanRight.02:43.74AndrewYou could see the rings.02:43.91SeanYeah.02:44.78AndrewIt's like, holy shit, that's planet.02:45.19SeanWhoa.02:48.54SeanCool. Nice.02:49.75AndrewYeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then I was in San Diego for a week. So fully, fully my fault. there's There's at least a month in there that was fully my fault.03:01.06AndrewI'd had kind of aspirations of like, maybe I'll drive to a coffee shop and we should do like a podcast episode from a coffee shop on the Olympic Peninsula.03:01.41SeanOkay.03:10.62AndrewAnd yeah, no way that was happening.03:13.08Seanwe can We can split it fifty fifty It's both our faults.03:17.92SeanThat's cool. You ever think about like how like crazy it is that when human... like you know I understand, like okay, like you're like, oh, hey, there are things in the sky. I want to go look at things in the sky and tell magnifying glass exists. We keep stacking them. We can start to see things in the sky.03:33.30SeanAnd then just like the realization of, like oh, shit, there's more like giant balls of things out there.03:40.80AndrewThe thing that the always gets me is ...
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    55 mins
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