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Julian Kiverstein is a senior professor at Amsterdam Medical. He's co-authored various papers about the importance of play as it relates to predictive processing, active learning, intimacy and embodied cognition.

Sometimes we get stuck in attractor states. Play is a form of disruption that may be able to help us get unstuck. Play seems to be far from algorithmic.

This conversation explores how playfulness is crucial for meaning and flourishing, and how building safe spaces for play (such as museums and parks) are crucial for healthy societies.

Active inference and predictive processing are discussed as tools that might help us better model and understand this ‘sweet spot’ towards finding ways to create spaces where we can explore uncertainty and risk without danger.

Drawing from his extensive work in phenomenology, embodied cognition, and predictive processing, Julian offers fresh perspectives on how play connects to mental health and wellbeing. Some key ideas from this episode:

• Play requires safety yet involves taking risks—a paradoxical relationship that enables personal growth
• Adults often lose the curious openness of childhood as we become fixated on seriousness and habitual patterns
• Love shares qualities with play as both involve transcendence beyond the self and openness to fresh experiences
• Active inference and predictive processing provide frameworks for understanding both mental illness and flourishing
• Breaking out of "attractor states" or fixed patterns requires disruption that playful activities can provide
• Creating safe spaces for play becomes essential for development, creativity, and meaning-making

00:00 The Role of Play in Well-being
01:50 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
02:45 Exploring Active Inference and Predictive Processing
05:24 The Importance of Play in Development
09:58 Julian's Journey into Mind Studies
12:11 Understanding Mental Illness through Predictive Processing
21:57 The Concept of Play and Its Cognitive Benefits
30:27 Intrinsic Motivation and the Value of Play
44:12 Play as a Disruptive Force in Mental Health
45:09 Understanding Mental Illness and Uncertainty
46:13 The Role of Play in Mental Health
47:38 Creating Safe Spaces for Emotional Regulation
49:05 Exploration vs. Exploitation in Learning
52:03 The Importance of Play in Adulthood
53:35 Art, Literature, and Emotional Engagement
56:55 The Need for Play in Academia
01:20:50 Balancing Exploration and Familiarity
01:23:37 Final Thoughts on Play and Well-being

Play in Predictive Minds

Intimate Places: Playgrounds for self-exploration

Playfulness and the meaningful life with Mark Miller

Julian's papers

JK and Darius Active Inference Institute

Harry Heft Conversation

Karl Friston Conversation

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Sabina Leonelli (hosted live here by Fotis Tsiroukis) is a philosopher of science and technology renowned for pioneering work in the philosophy of data & open science. As a professor at the Technical University ofMunich (TUM), she directs the Ethical Data Initiative and leads the PHIL_OS project, which develops empirically grounded frameworks for open science in under-resourced research environments. Her interdisciplinary approach bridges high theory with participatory, on-the-ground research—exemplified by her ethnographic collaborations with biologists and data scientists.

In this episode, host Fotis engages in a deep and wide-ranging conversation with Sabina Leonelli. They explore the intersections between philosophy, science, and society, discussing topics like complementary science, the role of qualitative and quantitative methods in research, the challenges of interdisciplinary work, and the ethical implications of AI and data-driven technologies. Sabina urges us to not fear inconvenience—embracing complexity and discomfort in intellectual and social pursuits. The conversation touches on the necessity of love, vulnerability & collective agency in navigating the modern world, offering profound insights into how we can rethink knowledge production, technology, and politics.

Sabina Leonelli

[00:00:00] Highlights & Introduction

[00:10:41] Interview Begins

[00:11:13] Sabina's Journey

[00:14:17] Fascination with Boundary-Disrespecting Thinkers

[00:16:20] Early Influences & Education

[00:19:21] Challenges of Interdisciplinary Work

[00:20:39] Mentors & Inspirations

[00:23:54] The Approach of Complementary Science

[00:28:37] Collaborating with Scientists as a Philosopher

[00:32:26] Philosophy of Data

[00:36:00] Questions Left Out of Biology

[00:37:40] Coming to terms with Social Epistemology

[00:40:05] Choices & Assumptions in Scientific Research

[00:40:05] Willingness to Engage with the Social Nature of Science

[00:44:05] Willingness to Use Different Methods

[00:48:05] Acknowledging the Role of Quantification

[00:50:27] Knowledge Hierarchies

[00:55:00] Mixed Methods for Global Issues

[00:57:00] Limits of AI: The Case of Medical Expertise

[00:58:52] AI as Complement to Expert Knowledge

[01:02:01] Cultural Obsession with Control & Convenience

[01:03:45] Social Media & Digital Divide

[01:07:20] Regaining Agency Through Politics

[01:12:30] Collective Action & Social Relationships

[01:15:00] Need for Political Engagement

[01:17:20] Contemporary Disillusionment

[01:19:40] Love as a Teacher

[01:22:20] Vulnerability & Human Experience

[01:25:50] Caring as Leverage for Engagement

PHIL_OS Project

Ethical Data Initiative (EDI)

(Book, Open Access)

Data Shadows (Art-Science Film Collaboration)

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Andrea in conversation with fellow cognitive scientist Mark Michael James, highlighting his journey from understanding patterns of being to shaping habits and realigning health. Mark shares his experiences from Ireland, his academic pursuits, and his present work at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology. This episode delves into synchronicity, embodied cognition, and the philosophies and practices of the arising 'school of way' of practice and philosophy which includes 'wayshaping' and 'waymaking' and pertains to a paper Mark has recently written with Mushfiqa Jamaluddin, Tom Froese, Aisha Belhadi, Anna Panagiotou, and Dave Snowden. It all ties back to practical applications in health, navigating complexity, and striving for a dynamic balance in life. Mark's personal stories and reflections make this a must-watch for anyone interested in cognitive science, philosophy, and the art of living well.

00:00 Introduction to Unexpected Contributions
00:35 Exploring the Concept of 'Craic'
00:56 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
01:02 Introducing Mark Michael James and His Work
02:23 Discussion on Synchronicity and Relevance Realization
06:47 Mark's Journey to Okinawa
12:39 Navigating Personal and Social Patterns
51:23 Health Challenges and Personal Stories
55:06 Sensory Irregularities and Scripts
56:21 Breaching Experiments and Sociological Insights
57:13 Cultural Patterns and the Irish Concept of 'The Crack'
01:03:26 Health, Habits, and Personal Transformation
01:08:05 Philosophical Reflections and Practical Applications
01:19:49 Wayshaping Framework and Multiscale Health
01:27:57 Personal Reflections and Future Directions

Wayshaping paper

Waymaking

OIST

Mark's website

Also, have a look at this book about Mindshaping by Michelle Maiese.

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