Cancel culture is holding us back from climate action.

This week on It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, our co-hosts, Heidi Schoeneck and Phil White, speak to Jenny Morgan, author of Cancel Culture and Climate, to understand how shame, purity tests, and the “angry activist” approach are slowing real progress and what we can do differently.

Jenny reveals how empathy, curiosity, and forgiveness can create space for collaboration instead of division, and why celebrating “pretty good” steps may be the key to unlocking faster climate solutions.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why attacking brands often backfires and makes change harder.
• How cancel culture is creeping into the climate movement.
• The hidden role of projection bias in climate pledges and net zero goals.
• Why “perfect” is the enemy of progress and why “pretty good” matters.
• How to talk about climate justice without alienating people.
• Why curiosity is the most powerful tool for climate conversations.

Jenny’s insights challenge us to move past shame and into solidarity. A mindset shift that could make all the difference in reversing climate change.

Key Takeaways & Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

03:00 – Why “pretty good” is good enough

05:45 – Net zero targets & projection bias

07:00 – Attacking brands vs. unlocking collaboration

10:00 – Cancel culture’s climate problem

13:00 – Climate inclusivity without shame

15:20 – Talking climate justice with empathy

20:00 – Empathy & accountability as change accelerators

23:00 – Jenny’s one piece of advice for every conversation

Additional Resources

Cancel Culture and Climate by Jenny Morgan is available now for purchase, learn more here: cancelcultureinclimate.com

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✨ Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/tEENO

🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/m9cCh

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun).

Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

Welcome back to It Shouldn’t Be This Hard — the podcast where we dig into sustainability, purpose, and the messy, human side of making change… because the world desperately needs more of it.

This week, our co-hosts Heidi Schoeneck and Phil White are joined by David Katz, CEO & Founder of Plastic Bank, the social fintech behind a global bottle deposit program that helps end poverty and stop plastic pollution.

David brings raw honesty and unfiltered wisdom to the conversation, challenging us to rethink not only how we view plastic, but also how we define progress and prosperity.

In this episode, David opens up about:

• Why inspiration without action is meaningless.
• The uncomfortable truth: big companies choose not to act, even when the path forward is obvious.
• The difference between profitability and prosperity and why prosperity creates exponential impact.
• Why he refuses to label plastic simply as “waste” or “garbage,” and what happens when we start seeing materials for their potential, not their disposal.
• His personal shift away from seeking external validation or accomplishments, and toward the deeper work of healing humanity and the planet.

With a model built on dignity, purpose, and circularity, Plastic Bank is turning one of the world’s biggest problems into a pathway for prosperity.

Tune in to hear one of the most provocative and inspiring conversations we’ve had yet and discover why ending plastic pollution shouldn’t be this hard.

Key Takeaways

Introduction (00:00)

From inspiration to action (3:05)

Why companies “choose not to act” (5:16)

The challenge we all need to address (7:31)

Profit vs. prosperity (10:33)

Plastic Bank’s prosperity mindset (12:05)

The hardest part of the journey (12:23)

Letting go of validation (13:00)

The deeper work of healing (16:22)

Additional Resources

✨ Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/

🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun).

Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

Welcome back to It Shouldn’t Be This Hard — the podcast where we dig into sustainability, purpose, and the messy, human side of making change… because the world desperately needs more of it.

In this episode, we’re joined by the brilliant Hilary Keates, who takes us on a journey from billion-dollar product launches at Gillette to reshaping the food system as Chief Marketing Officer of Divert. Along the way, she opens up about the pivotal career decisions that defined her path, the tough lessons she’s learned about boundaries and burnout, and why she believes fighting food waste shouldn’t be this hard.

Hilary talks about what it was like to help launch Gillette Fusion — the fastest $1B product in P&G history — and why walking away from that kind of high-octane success to pursue sustainability was one of the best decisions she’s ever made. She takes us inside her work at Indigo Agriculture and now Divert, where the mission is keeping food out of landfills and turning “would-be” waste into impact.

We get into the shocking numbers — like why one-third of all food in the U.S. is wasted, how that costs the average household $1,500 every year, and why food waste is actually a bigger driver of climate change than cars. Hilary also shares how major grocers are working with Divert to turn the tide on this issue.

Hilary’s story is both inspiring and practical, full of real talk about what it takes to shift from shareholder to stakeholder capitalism, and how to find meaning in the work you do.

Tune in to hear more about Hilary’s journey, the fight against food waste, and why this conversation is one of the most important ones we can be having right now.

Key Takeaways:

Introduction (00:00)

Hilary’s beginnings (2:28)

Pivotal career moments (4:15)

Fighting food waste with Divert (9:00)

The hardest part: boundaries (10:53)

Small actions, big change (13:37)

The shocking scale of food waste (15:45)

Retail partnerships (16:50)

Question for Gaia (18:44)

Advice for sustainability leaders and final reflections (21:32)

Additional Resources:

✨ Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/

🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good.

With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun).

Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

Welcome to the VERY FIRST episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, where we discuss all things sustainability… because the world ALWAYS needs more of it!

We’re excited to kick things off with a real conversation about career pivots, personal growth, the importance of ethical journalism, and why sometimes the best thing that can happen to you is also the most unexpected.

Meet Kathy Baird Westfall, our amazing guest for this inaugural episode, who's been through the ringer in her career and is now taking a step back to focus on what’s next. And by the way, she’s LOVING being unemployed for the first time since she was fourteen. Yep, you heard that right!

Kathy takes us through her journey, from the whirlwind of agency life to transitioning into corporate at Nike, and how all of that shaped her views on leadership and the changing dynamics in the workplace.

She also gives us her thoughts on why DEI is still such a hot, polarizing topic today. (Spoiler alert: She’s got some strong opinions, and we’re here for it).

Along the way, Kathy talks about her love for lifelong learning and staying grounded in your values.

Finally, Kathy also discusses the importance of local journalism, why it’s under more threat than ever right now, and why news deserts are one of the greatest threats to our democracy right now.

We’re not saying she’s got the secret sauce to life… but we’re kind of saying she does.

Tune in now to learn more about Kathy’s journey, where she’s going, and how she sees the future of journalism.

Key Takeaways:

Introduction (00:00)

On being unemployed for the first time since age 14 (02:45)

How getting recruited by Nike changed Kathy’s life (05:31)

Kathy’s lifelong passion for learning and teaching (06:57)

Transitioning from agency life to corporate culture (08:14)

The challenges facing the press today (13:24)

Helping people understand the information they need (18:19)

What continues to frustrate Kathy (19:37)

Why DEI remains a contentious and polarizing issue (20:48)

What skills will leaders need in the age of AI? (27:33)

Additional Resources:

✨ Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/

🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/

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It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good.

With expert insights, real-world strategies, and Gaia AI to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, ethical business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun).

Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

It feels like doing the right thing (and doing things right) has never been harder.

Whether you're trying to build a mission-driven business, drive change inside a legacy company, or just stay true to your values while navigating messy realities… it shouldn’t be this hard.

But it is.

We are Phil and Heidi, and we’re the co-founders behind Grounded. We work with brands, retailers, nonprofits, and entrepreneurs around the world, and the same themes keep surfacing…

- fatigue

- disconnect

- frustration

- and the growing gap between purpose and practice

It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is our attempt to name it, explore it, and help make it just a little easier.

This podcast is for anyone who’s been in the trenches. Social entrepreneurs, corporate insiders, impact leaders, and anyone trying (and often failing) to move the needle.

Each episode brings real stories, candid conversations, and a healthy dose of humor. You’ll hear from guests doing the work, wrestling with the same questions you are, and occasionally put them on the spot with some provocative questions from Gaia, our AI sidekick.

We’re not here to lecture. We’re here to listen, learn, and laugh through the hard stuff.

Subscribe today so you never miss a new episode!