Joe C. joins Patrick and Thom to chat about mutual aid versus self-help: how collectivism can feed our emotional sobriety. When we give ourselves to fellowship and sharing, we’re gaining something as much as we’re giving it away. The origin of AA itself can be attributed to this concept.

Register for what’s sure to be lively: the 2025 International Convention of Alcoholics Anonymous, which begins tomorrow on July 3rd and extends through July 6th:

https://www.aa.org/international-convention

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Joe Chisholm checks back in. We read a passage from his daily reflections book and he brings to our attention “Living Sober,” which was written more than 40 years after the AA Big Book was published. When those recovering were asked “what were the reasons you drank?,” they often said they used it to express their anger. Today we search for new mediums to express our emotions.

As Allen likes to remind us, we’re stuck, not sick. In the space between a stimulus and a response we try to lean into the pause and listen to our second voice. Emotional sobriety lies therein.

We can also do a brief check in with the audience about recent controversy over our political opinions.

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

This week we talk about taking better lessons from our mistakes. In finding our emotional center of gravity, recognizing we’re sick rather than stuck, we try to trust the process instead of controlling the outcome.

To participate in Thom’s Inner Child Workshop on Saturday, June 21st @ 10am CST, email him here:

thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Allen, Thom, and Patrick discuss the recent political upheaval and encroaching fascism of Trump and ICE. Allen relates the tension between our obligations to society and commitment to ourselves to a quote from Eric Fromme. Emotional sobriety is found in adapting, but not at the expense of becoming.

Then, Patrick talks to artist, organizer, and person in recovery Elizabeth Medrano. A shared impulse towards emotional sobriety, social justice, and their fellows are all part of the same continuum.

To participate in Thom’s Inner Child Workshop on Saturday, June 21st @ 10am CST, email him here:

thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com

Consider donating to CHIRLA: https://www.instagram.com/chirla_org?igsh=NjVhODU3cGF3NWxw

Also LATACO: https://www.instagram.com/lataco?igsh=MW5vaXMydHllcGVwYQ

Loyola Immigrant Justice Clinic: https://www.lls.edu/academics/experientiallearning/clinics/loyolaimmigrantjusticeclinic/

Attend the “NO KINGS” protest: https://www.nokings.org/

From “The New Colossus”

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus
November 2, 1883

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Samantha was a psychologist before she found recovery, and her experience with the 12 Steps is just one touchstone in her evolving relationship to life in pursuit of greater emotional sobriety. This week she chats with Allen and Thom about her recent experience at Recovery Reimagined in Dublin, what we mean by “Recovery Capital”, and her new book.

Samantha’s book Channels of Peace HERE

To participate in Thom’s Inner Child Workshop on Saturday, June 21st @ 10am CST, email him here:

thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Having returned from the second annual Recovery Reimagined conference in Dublin, Patrick reflects on the passing of a longtime sober friend who took his own life. Allen and Thom offer their own professional and personal experiences with suicide, depression and “anti-self”, which maximizes our life’s problems while minimizing the resources we have to deal with them.

To participate in Thom’s Inner Child Workshop on Saturday, June 21st @ 10am CST, email him here:

thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com

Some of R.T. Castleberry’s poetry: https://mockingheartreview.com/archives/volume-5-issue-1/poems-to-start-the-decade/r-t-castleberry/

https://writingdisorder.com/r-t-castleberry-poetry-2/

The closing song “No Other Choice to Choose” is by Herman Kluge & Paul Boedeker from Society of Little Friends

From our last episode, Carl Erik Fisher’s Flourishing After Addiction podcast:

https://pod.link/1581713114

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Allen, Thom, and Patrick welcome addiction psychiatrist Carl Erik Fisher of Columbia University to discuss emotional sobriety. In the pursuit of “making sense of what happened to him” after his addiction hit a point of critical mass and he decided to seek help, Dr. Fisher wrote The Urge: Our History of Addiction and began regular episodes of the Flourishing After Addiction podcast to look for answers. How did we get here, how are we recovering, and how can we carry a message of education and hope?

Our relationship to community, to Self, and to our own self-esteem are dynamics which must evolve for us to find that “quiet place in bright sunshine” Bill mentions in his 1958 letter.

Learn more about Dr. Fisher on his website:

https://www.carlerikfisher.com

His podcast, Flourishing After Addiction:

https://pod.link/1581713114

Allen and Patrick will be in Dublin for the Recovery Reimagined conference next week, which can be attended virtually or in person:

https://friendlycircleberlin.org/recovery-reimagined-2025

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com/

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

When we try to wrestle security from life, we often get pinned. Joe Chisholm offers us this:

Dee Hock (1929-2022) wrote:

“Life is not about control; it is not about getting; it is not about having or knowing. It is not even about being. Life is eternal, perpetual becoming, or it is nothing. Becoming is not a thing to be known, commanded, or controlled. It is a magnificent, mysterious odyssey to be experienced.”

Near the end of Twelve Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety, it captures the same becoming (the journey) vs. the outcome (controlling):

"Emotional stability is achieved in our lives by becoming aware of our toxic beliefs and unenforceable rules, the ideas that make our emotional balance dependent on external conditions....

Once we become aware of these unenforceable rules, we must surrender them. We need to move toward an attitude of “I am okay even if this or that happens,” and away from the idea that “I am okay only if this happens or that happens.” This is emotional freedom. This freedom brings more stability to our canoe; we might even dance in it if we wish!"

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com/

Patrick and Allen will be attending Friendly Circle Berlin's "Recovery Reimagined" event in Dublin, more info here: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/recovery-reimagined-2025

Upcoming events with Allen Berger: https://abphd.com/events/

Join an ongoing Zoom meeting wherein participants read Bill Schaberg’s 30 Things: Practical Advice for Living Well chapter-by-chapter here:

11.00am East Coast / 4.00pm U.K.

ID: 875 319 1947

Password: 2GROWIN

Follow us on social media.

Podcast Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST

Zoom Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.