Episodes

  • Is People Analytics Ready to be CHRO & Executive Search - Jennifer Wilson - #169

    Is People Analytics Ready to be CHRO & Executive Search - Jennifer Wilson - #169
    Apr 20 2026
    Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Jennifer Wilson, Partner and Global Co-Head, HR Officers Practice at Heidrick & Struggles! In this wide-ranging and deeply practical conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Jennifer Wilson to unpack how the role of the Chief Human Resources Officer is evolving in real time—and why the expectations for HR leadership have never been higher. Jennifer shares her unconventional path into executive search, describing how her early career in consulting and global work across Hong Kong and the US shaped her perspective on leadership, organizational design, and the human side of business transformation. What emerges is a clear view of executive search not just as recruiting, but as a front-row seat to how leadership itself is changing. A major theme throughout the discussion is the rapid expansion of the CHRO role. Drawing on research from Heidrick & Struggles, Jennifer explains how the number of required capabilities for CHROs has nearly doubled over the past decade, reflecting the growing complexity of the job. Today’s CHRO is no longer an administrative leader but a strategic enterprise partner expected to connect business strategy with people strategy, advise CEOs directly, and lead through ambiguity. The conversation highlights how skills like AI enablement, workforce planning, succession strategy, and organizational design are becoming essential, alongside enduring traits like empathy, judgment, and high emotional intelligence. The discussion goes deep on AI’s impact, particularly the idea of an “AI-native CHRO.” Jennifer is candid that such profiles are still rare, with most leaders only having partial exposure to AI-driven transformation. Rather than searching for perfect technical expertise, organizations are prioritizing curiosity, adaptability, and the ability to lead change. This reflects a broader shift: the future of HR leadership is less about mastering every domain and more about integrating across them. Cole and Jennifer also explore career pathways into the CHRO role, including the limitations of traditional HR development models. They discuss why many leaders lack the breadth of experience required and why moving from a number two role into the top job is such a significant leap. People analytics emerges as a particularly interesting lens—while it offers a unique enterprise-wide perspective, Jennifer notes that it cannot be the sole foundation for a future CHRO. Exposure to business leadership, operational accountability, and direct advisory experience remains critical. The conversation also demystifies executive search, clarifying a common misconception: search firms work for companies, not candidates. While building relationships can help, relying solely on headhunters is not a viable career strategy. This insight grounds the discussion in reality, emphasizing the importance of proactive career management. In the latter part of the episode, the conversation broadens to hiring practices, assessment tools, and the growing intersection between HR and technology. Jennifer pushes back on the idea of merging CHRO and CTO roles, arguing instead for stronger collaboration rather than unrealistic “unicorn” expectations. The future, she suggests, will depend on how effectively leaders integrate human and technical systems to drive organizational success. Throughout, Jennifer paints a compelling picture of the ideal HR leader for the future: engaging, empathetic, data-driven, agile, and capable of navigating constant change. It’s a vision that challenges both current leaders and aspiring ones to rethink how they build skills, gain experience, and lead in an increasingly complex world. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    51 mins
  • People Analytics Explained, Consulting Skills & Pivot to Asia - Kinsey Li - #168

    People Analytics Explained, Consulting Skills & Pivot to Asia - Kinsey Li - #168
    Apr 13 2026
    Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast special guest, Kinsey Li, Author of "People Analytics Explained" and Advisor at PwC! In this wide-ranging and deeply thoughtful conversation, host Cole Napper sits down with Kinsey to explore what it truly takes to succeed in people analytics beyond the technical skills that often dominate the narrative. Kinsey shares the inspiration behind her book, which emerged from her own early frustrations breaking into the field. Despite completing courses and gaining certifications, she found a major gap between technical training and the real-world capabilities required to be effective. Her core insight reframes the discipline: people analytics is not primarily about data, but about relationships. In her experience, success in the field is closer to 80% stakeholder management and 20% technical execution, a perspective that challenges how many professionals approach their development. The conversation dives into the consulting mindset that has shaped Kinsey’s career, highlighting two essential skills: scoping and listening. She explains that scoping is fundamentally about defining boundaries—understanding what problem you are solving, what success looks like, and just as importantly, what you will not address. In a field where organizational challenges are deeply interconnected, the ability to prioritize and maintain focus is critical. This requires not only analytical thinking but also confidence and judgment to push back when necessary. Kinsey also offers a fascinating look at how cultural context shapes people analytics work. Drawing on her experience across Australia, the UK, and now Jakarta, she contrasts Western and Eastern workplace dynamics. In more hierarchical environments, decisions can be executed بسرعة and scaled quickly, but often with less consultation. At the same time, she notes that some of the most advanced people analytics practices exist in small, less visible pockets across Asia, where innovation happens quietly without widespread sharing. The discussion expands into themes of career growth and learning, reinforcing the idea that breadth of experience often outweighs early specialization. Kinsey connects this to probabilistic thinking, emphasizing that careers are less like chess and more like poker, where exposure to diverse experiences increases the likelihood of long-term success. This aligns with Cole’s own reflections on building expertise through multidisciplinary exposure rather than narrow focus. They also explore evolving attitudes toward AI and data privacy, particularly among younger generations. Kinsey observes that digital natives are more willing to delegate thinking to AI and are often more comfortable sharing personal data, a shift that has significant implications for the future of people analytics. At the same time, both highlight the importance of maintaining ethical guardrails as capabilities expand. Throughout the episode, Kinsey brings a candid and personal perspective, discussing how her evolving mindset, including embracing a “default trust” approach and navigating neurodiversity, has shaped how she works and interacts with others. Her journey underscores that effectiveness in people analytics is as much about self-awareness and adaptability as it is about technical skill. This episode is a compelling reminder that the future of people analytics will be defined not just by better data, but by better thinking, stronger relationships, and a deeper understanding of how work actually gets done across different contexts and cultures. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 4 mins
  • What RedThread Research Says About AI & Everything Else - Stacia Garr & Dani Johnson - #167

    What RedThread Research Says About AI & Everything Else - Stacia Garr & Dani Johnson - #167
    Apr 6 2026
    Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guests, Stacia Garr & Dani Johnson, both are Co-Founders and Principal Analysts at RedThread Research! In this wide-ranging and intellectually rich conversation, Cole Napper sits down with two of the most influential thinkers in the people analytics and HR research space to explore how AI, data, and evolving workforce dynamics are reshaping how organizations operate and make decisions. The discussion dives into RedThread’s latest research, including the evolution of mega trends shaping the future of work. Stacia and Dani reflect on themes like geopolitical disruption, the continued shift toward growth over people, and the accelerating integration of AI into enterprise workflows. Rather than viewing AI as a standalone concept, they emphasize it as an enabler becoming embedded into how organizations function—so much so that it may soon become “the air we breathe.” A major focus is the rise of multi-source analysis platforms (MSAPs), which aggregate and harmonize data across HR systems to drive better decisions. The trio explores how organizations are moving beyond siloed data toward integrated ecosystems combining employee experience, workforce planning, skills data, and operational insights. This shift represents a broader transformation in how companies understand work, breaking it down into tasks, outcomes, and dynamic systems involving both humans and AI. Dani brings a strong perspective on skills, tasks, and talent mobility, arguing that tasks may serve as the bridge between skills and work in an AI-driven world. However, both she and Stacia challenge the idea that mapping tasks alone is enough, suggesting organizations may need to rethink work from the outcome level entirely. This raises questions about whether current workforce design approaches are too rooted in legacy systems already being disrupted by AI. The episode also tackles a central question: will AI replace jobs or augment them? Stacia and Dani are clear—AI will replace some jobs, and already is. The challenge lies in how organizations respond, particularly in redeploying talent, maintaining learning pathways, and ensuring employees build the judgment needed to work effectively alongside AI. Another thread explores the “hollowed-out expert,” where individuals appear knowledgeable due to AI but lack true expertise. This raises concerns about authenticity and performance assessment, especially as research shows AI effectiveness depends heavily on user knowledge and cognitive ability. Throughout, the conversation challenges rigid HR operating models and one-size-fits-all transformation frameworks, emphasizing that success depends on asking better questions, understanding context, and adapting continuously. The episode closes with reflections on career success, the importance of social capital, and a core truth: despite rapid technological change, organizations exist because people prefer to work together. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 12 mins
  • Scott RETURNS for a Co-Host Reunion - Scott Hines - #166

    Scott RETURNS for a Co-Host Reunion - Scott Hines - #166
    Mar 30 2026
    Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Scott Hines, Previous Co-Host of Directionally Correct! In this long-awaited reunion episode, Cole and Scott reconnect after Scott's time away from the mic, diving into a candid, wide-ranging conversation that blends humor, reflection, and sharp insight on the evolving world of work, technology, and people analytics. The discussion opens with Scott’s decision to step away from the podcast, driven in part by personal reflection following the loss of his mother and a reassessment of how he spends his time. What follows is an honest look at the hidden effort behind content creation, the opportunity cost of side projects, and the reality that even passion projects can become demanding commitments. As the conversation unfolds, the two explore how advances in AI are reshaping not just workflows, but the very nature of knowledge work itself. From fully automated academic research to AI-powered coding and reporting tools, they reflect on the accelerating pace of change and the tradeoffs that come with it, including the subtle erosion of foundational skills. At the same time, they wrestle with the paradox of wanting to stay current in a rapidly evolving tech landscape while avoiding the noise, hype, and constant distractions that come with it. This tension shows up in their discussion of digital minimalism, notification fatigue, and the idea of building a “command center” for life and work. The episode also revisits core people analytics topics, including the relationship between cognitive ability and personality, the nuances of assessment design, and the ongoing debate around prediction, fairness, and subgroup differences. Scott brings his signature analytical lens, while Cole connects these ideas back to real-world applications and the future of workforce strategy. They also touch on broader societal themes, from generational shifts in workplace behavior to the potential long-term impacts of pandemic-era disruptions on social and cognitive development. True to form, the episode mixes depth with levity. The duo riff on everything from the “Gen Z stare” to the absurdity of hyper-competitive pickleball, while also tackling more serious ideas like workplace surveillance, the changing nature of organizations in an AI-driven world, and whether academia should still be viewed as a calling or simply another job under pressure. Throughout, there’s a consistent thread: questioning assumptions, challenging norms, and trying to make sense of a world where the boundaries between human and machine capabilities are increasingly blurred. The episode closes on a high note with updates on Scott’s new role at HRBench and Cole’s continued growth of the podcast and broader ecosystem, signaling that while things evolve, the core mission of exploring people analytics and the future of work remains as strong as ever. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 10 mins
  • AI Workforce Transformation at Salesforce & Work Intelligence - Neil Morelli - #165

    AI Workforce Transformation at Salesforce & Work Intelligence - Neil Morelli - #165
    Mar 23 2026
    Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Neil Morelli, Senior Director, Human+AI Collaboration and Workforce Transformation at Salesforce! If you like this episode, go ahead and sign up for Neil’s newsletter People-first AI! In this wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Neil to unpack one of the most important shifts happening in the workplace today: AI workforce transformation. Rather than treating AI as just another tool, Neil explains how organizations are now rethinking the very nature of work itself. At the center of this shift is a move away from focusing purely on “jobs” or “tasks” and toward understanding work as dynamic units of value creation, where humans and AI systems collaborate in increasingly complex ways. Neil shares how AI introduces what feels like a new category of “digital talent,” fundamentally changing how organizations think about workforce composition, productivity, and value delivery. This shift requires leaders to rethink not just roles, but how work is structured, measured, and optimized. The conversation explores how organizations are beginning to adopt more economic-style thinking—focusing on value-added work versus overhead—and how new forms of observability are making it easier to measure contributions from both humans and AI systems. A major theme throughout the episode is the importance of mental models and frameworks for working effectively with AI. Neil emphasizes that success with AI isn’t about mastering prompt engineering tricks, but about breaking down problems, structuring work intelligently, and even using AI to help design better workflows. This “use AI to use AI” mindset becomes a powerful way to scale both individual and organizational capability. The discussion also dives into the evolving role of people analytics and workforce planning. Neil and Cole highlight how traditional analytics must now integrate more deeply with workforce planning, economics, and business strategy. The future belongs to practitioners who can bridge quantitative rigor with qualitative understanding of skills, motivation, and human behavior. Importantly, the episode doesn’t shy away from the human side of transformation. Neil discusses the psychological barriers to AI adoption, including fear, reduced psychological safety, and misconceptions about value and performance. He underscores that leadership behavior is critical—when managers model AI usage and create supportive environments, adoption accelerates. Without that, even the best tools and mandates fall flat. The conversation also touches on experimentation, collaboration, and the evolving nature of expertise. While AI democratizes access to capabilities, Neil argues that domain expertise remains essential for judgment, validation, and accountability. As organizations navigate uncertainty, the ability to be “directionally correct” becomes more valuable than ever. Blending practical insights with forward-looking perspective, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of how AI is reshaping work, organizations, and the role of human talent in 2026 and beyond. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 7 mins
  • The REAL Conversation about People Analytics in LATAM - Maria Nolazco Masson and Paola Alfaro- #164

    The REAL Conversation about People Analytics in LATAM - Maria Nolazco Masson and Paola Alfaro- #164
    Mar 16 2026
    Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guests, Maria Nolazco Masson, People Operations, Analytics & Systems Senior Manager at IPSY & Paola Alfaro, Founder at HumanWorks! In this wide-ranging and deeply honest conversation, host Cole Napper explores what is really happening in the people analytics space across Latin America, the challenges professionals in the region face as the discipline matures, and why the future may be far brighter than many expect. Maria and Paola share firsthand perspectives from inside the rapidly evolving LATAM people analytics community. Rather than inheriting mature analytics infrastructures like many organizations in North America or Europe, many companies across Latin America are building the plane while flying it—creating people analytics capabilities from scratch while simultaneously educating leaders on the value of workforce data. The conversation highlights how professionals in the region are navigating limited resources, fragmented systems, and a lack of established data teams while still pushing the field forward. Maria reflects on her unconventional path into analytics, beginning with operational HR reporting and gradually evolving into deeper data work across systems, dashboards, and storytelling. She shares how her early career focused heavily on technical execution—pulling data, building charts, and automating reports—before she realized the real impact comes from translating numbers into narratives that influence decisions. Today, her focus is on helping organizations move beyond descriptive dashboards toward meaningful insights that actually shape business outcomes. Paola complements this perspective by discussing the realities of consulting with organizations that often lack the foundational data infrastructure required for analytics. Her work frequently begins not with optimization, but with education—helping leaders understand what data governance, data culture, and analytical thinking even look like in practice. She also discusses her early “aha moment” discovering people analytics as a discipline and how that experience shaped her mission to bring more structured analytics methodologies into HR across Latin America. Throughout the discussion, the group explores several themes shaping the future of the field: the growing influence of AI on analytics workflows, the importance of data governance as organizations scale their analytics capabilities, and the rising need for professionals who can translate insights into action. Maria and Paola both emphasize that while tools and automation are accelerating rapidly, human context, interpretation, and influence remain essential to turning data into impact. The episode also highlights the growing momentum of the LATAM people analytics community itself. Paola shares how regional leaders are building stronger networks, launching conferences, and creating communities where practitioners can collaborate, learn, and accelerate the adoption of workforce analytics practices across countries. This spirit of collaboration, adaptability, and curiosity may ultimately become Latin America’s greatest advantage as the field evolves globally. Along the way, the conversation touches on personal career growth, navigating impostor syndrome, building confidence with data, mentoring the next generation of professionals, and balancing technical expertise with the communication skills required to influence executives. Both guests bring thoughtful, candid perspectives on what it really takes to grow in a field that continues to reinvent itself. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 9 mins
  • Global Talent Disruption, Mobility & Expats, & Soft Skills Importance - Dr. Paula Caligiuri - #163

    Global Talent Disruption, Mobility & Expats, & Soft Skills Importance - Dr. Paula Caligiuri - #163
    Mar 9 2026
    Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Dr. Paula Caligiuri, Distinguished Professor at Northeastern University, Co-Founder of Skiilify, Best-Selling Author, Podcast Host of “International Business Today”! In this wide-ranging and deeply insightful conversation, host Cole Napper sits down with one of the world’s leading scholars on global talent, cultural agility, and international business to explore how work, careers, and human capability are evolving in a time of rapid technological and geopolitical disruption. The discussion begins with Paula’s decades of research on global mobility and expatriate success, where she studied how individuals adapt when working across cultures and unfamiliar environments. Drawing on her early work examining personality predictors of expatriate success, Paula explains why traits such as openness to experience and extraversion often predict who thrives in new and complex contexts. While traditional expatriate assignments have declined, the underlying challenge—humans operating outside familiar environments—has only intensified. Today, novelty comes to us rather than us traveling to it, as employees increasingly work across global teams, industries, generations, and rapidly changing technologies. From there, the conversation shifts toward cultural agility, a concept Paula has championed throughout her career. Rather than simply adapting to new situations, cultural agility involves knowing when to adapt, when to maintain your own standards, and when to help create new norms. In a world where AI, automation, and shifting labor markets are transforming jobs at unprecedented speed, these capabilities are becoming essential. Paula argues that while technology continues to reshape work, the human skills that help people navigate complexity—curiosity, humility, resilience, perspective taking, and relationship orientation—are becoming more important, not less. Cole and Paula also explore the growing conversation around skills-based organizations and the changing nature of talent management. As technical skills evolve rapidly and often have a shorter half-life than ever before, organizations must think carefully about how they build durable human capabilities that allow workers to move fluidly between roles, industries, and challenges. Paula shares insights from both academic research and real-world experimentation through her company Skillify, which helps individuals develop these capabilities through tools designed to build cultural agility across different stages of life and career. The conversation also explores Paula’s professional journey—balancing roles as a professor, entrepreneur, author, and podcast host. She reflects on the importance of translating academic insights into ideas practitioners can apply. Along the way, Paula offers practical advice for professionals seeking to build meaningful careers and strong personal brands, emphasizing the importance of understanding what you want your reputation to represent and consistently aligning your work with that purpose. Throughout the episode, Cole and Paula connect the dots between global labor dynamics, AI disruption, workforce transformation, and the future of human capability—offering a thought-provoking discussion about what it means to succeed in an era defined by uncertainty and constant change. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    54 mins
  • Workforce Intelligence in Healthcare & Being a Leader for 10 Years - Dr. Gary Russo - #162

    Workforce Intelligence in Healthcare & Being a Leader for 10 Years - Dr. Gary Russo - #162
    Mar 2 2026
    Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Dr. Gary Russo, Executive Director of Workforce Intelligence at Providence Health! In this wide-ranging and deeply human conversation, Cole sits down with Gary to explore what it really means to build and sustain a people analytics function for more than a decade inside one of the largest not-for-profit health systems in the United States. Gary reflects on hitting his ten-year mark at Providence Health & Services and what it takes to move beyond the AI hype cycle that has dominated so many analytics conversations. Rather than chasing headlines, he shares how real progress often happens in small, unglamorous steps: defining terms, building trust, clarifying governance, and laying foundations so better decisions can take root years later. From early debates about what “analytics” even meant to establishing strategic HR data governance across dozens of executives, Gary explains why perseverance and continuity of vision matter more than any single dashboard or model. The discussion dives into how healthcare fundamentally differs from other industries. In a world where leaders can honestly say they skipped your email because they were saving lives, prioritization hits differently. Gary unpacks the unique reimbursement model of healthcare, where organizations are rewarded when patients get well and do not return—creating an industry that is, in many ways, funded to keep itself out of business. He also explores the looming workforce crisis driven by aging populations, chronic disease, and nurse shortages, and why creative, nontraditional pathways into care delivery may be essential to sustaining the system. AI gets a reality check as Gary distinguishes between generative buzzwords and the quieter power of automation, robotics, and computer vision already transforming surgery and diagnostics. He emphasizes that governance—clear definitions, aligned metrics, and shared language—is the prerequisite not only for AI, but for productive conversations between HR, finance, and operations. Sometimes progress begins with something simple, like distinguishing between “position FTE” and “worked FTE” so debates end and better questions can begin. Throughout the episode, Gary blends neuroscience, therapy insights, improv training, and even fire performance into his leadership philosophy. He shares how relationship counseling principles apply to employer-employee dynamics, why listening goes far beyond surveys, and how understanding human uncertainty is central to responsible analytics. The conversation also tackles burnout, pessimism, social isolation, hybrid work, and the growing gap between strategy and so-called “data fluency” problems—challenging the assumption that unused dashboards signal a skills issue rather than a clarity issue. At its core, this episode is about using analytics in service of something bigger: putting more caregivers at the bedside, strengthening communities, and making decisions that ripple far beyond a spreadsheet. If you care about the intersection of AI, workforce planning, healthcare, and long-term culture change, this is one you won’t want to miss. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 5 mins