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Jayden Koulizakis: Hi, listeners, this is Jayden Koulizakis from Audible, and today I'm excited to be sitting down with Marc Fennell to talk about his brand-new Audible Original, Corked. Marc is a Walkley and James Beard Award-winning journalist who is known for diving headfirst into complex stories about power and obsession, delivering them in a way that feels very human and accessible. His new Audible Original Corked is about a scandal that shook one of the most prestigious organizations in the world, wine. Marc, welcome.
Marc Fennell: Thank you for having me.
JK: Lovely. So, you describe yourself as someone who drinks the second-cheapest bottle of wine—guilty, [laughs]—when you go to the restaurant.
MF: We're both very basic [laughs].
JK: What inspired you to make a series about wine? And also, is there a pattern here? Because you didn't know a lot about nuts or chilies in your previous Audible Originals. So, do you purposely choose things you don't know much about?
MF: Yeah, I do purposely choose things I don't know much about because the joy of being a journalist, really, is that you get to learn. You have a license to be curious all the time. You mentioned a number of my other Audible Originals there. So, It Burns, which I think was one of, if not the very first, Australian Audible Original, was about the race to breed the world's hottest chili. Nut Jobs was about $10 million worth of stolen nuts from the state of California. There's a theme. And, of course, this is about a scandal in the world of wine and sommeliers.
The thing about food and drink is that I harbor a belief that if you want to understand human beings, there is no better prism than food and drink. Because food reveals your culture. It reveals who you love, who you choose to eat with, who you choose to drink with. It reveals your economics, what you can afford. It reveals what you think about your body. It is this incredible prism to understand human beings. So, I've always gravitated back to food as a sort of a way of understanding people.
But wine is an interesting one because most of us have drunk something over the years, but it's a select few that genuinely know what goes into it. And there's a whole world in wine—in a glass of wine, you have climate, you have history, you have family histories, the family that ran the vineyard. There's a whole saga in that glass, which most of us are unaware of. I joke that I do get the second-cheapest bottle of wine. I sometimes go for the third-cheapest glass, but I'm pretty basic. And when we started looking into this story, I just thought it was worth flagging earlier, like, “I'm not coming into this as a wine expert.” And most importantly, you don't need to be a wine expert or a wine fan to listen to Corked. It's actually really a story about people who are obsessive and push themselves to the absolute limit.
"If you want to understand human beings, there is no better prism than food and drink."
But I think there's something mystical about wine. We know it tastes good. We know it gives us a buzz. But most of us don't really know what goes into it. That's where we enter the world of master sommeliers. So, master sommelier is one of the rarest jobs in the world, and there's maybe about 300 of them in the world, master sommeliers. It's one of the most competitive jobs in the world. And I was like, when we came across this universe, “Why would you make that your whole life?” I think from there, as we started scratching the surface of that world, we found that there was this massive scandal waiting to be told.
JK: So, we all know that the wine world can be quite guarded and elitist. How did you manage to get your foot in the door? And were you scared of going deeper into that world?
MF: The truth is we have a team. Whenever we make Audible Originals, I have a really wonderful team. And actually the person who I started this process with, Matt [Willis], he was part of the team that worked on It Burns, the very first Audible Original I did. And we'd been talking about ideas in this realm for a while. One of the reasons why I like this story is, everyone knows wine, but we don't really know this mystical world that exists within it. And that was irresistible. The fact that there's this elite club of master sommeliers that people have to spend years and thousands of dollars to get inside this world, that already was intriguing. I think somebody literally says in the Audible Original, “It’s Skull and Bones Society stuff.” And you spend a bunch of time with these people and you're like, "Oh, yeah, no, it kind of is." It's very opaque, how it works.
You're right, it is an inherently elitist world, the Court of Master Sommeliers. However, a lot of the people that are trying to become master sommeliers, they're actually perfectly lovely, normal people that have just chosen this somewhat expensive obsession. So, we follow them, we follow the people who tried to become master sommeliers, and then something happens. A scandal unfolds that destroys a whole bunch of lives, and it goes so horribly, horribly wrong. The truth is, the organization at the center of the series, the Court of Master Sommeliers Americas, they are still a citadel that refuses to engage with this story, which is a shame because very soon everyone's going to know what really happened.
JK: I've heard of a sommelier, but can you tell me the difference between a sommelier and a master sommelier and what kind of person wants to become a master sommelier?
MF: Okay, so imagine you're at a fancy restaurant, the sort of restaurant that you had to check there was money on the credit card before you went. There'll be waiters and service staff. There'll also be, in most really fancy restaurants, a person who's an expert in wine, and they are called a sommelier. By the way, I butchered the pronunciation of that name repeatedly throughout the series, so apologies to all of our French listeners. And so that person is an expert in wine. Most restaurants will have a sommelier. To become a master sommelier is one of the hardest jobs in the world. There’s around 300 of them in the world. There are more astronauts than there are master sommeliers. You and I, statistically speaking, are more likely to be Olympians than we are master sommeliers.
"In a glass of wine, you have climate, you have history, you have family histories... There's a whole saga in that glass, which most of us are unaware of."
To become one, you have to move through different stages. You become a sommelier and advance and you progress through. It takes years. You have to be invited to even be part of it. So, in America they have the Court of Master Sommeliers, and that is the accreditation organization. Now, to do this, there are a series of tests. There's a theory test, and the theory test can cover everything, like "where is this grape from? What year? What was the temperature in 1837 when this Beaujolais was blah, blah, blah." It's really detailed stuff. So, there's that. But if you study, you can pass.
Then there's a service test. Now, a service test is where they literally run a fake restaurant where you walk in, you step into this world as a candidate, and it’s a fake restaurant filled with master sommeliers, and they can chuck anything at you. “Make me a champagne cocktail. Spread this magnum between three people equally on the perfect...” Like, it's really specific. And they're also there to make it hard. So, you go through that. But then there's the crux of our story, which is the blind tasting.
So, as a candidate, you walk in, you're given a flight of six wines. You have no label, you just have to look at it, taste it, and you have to work out what kind of wine it is, where it's from, what year. And it's not just about identifying that. You actually kind of have to tell the story, convince them that you know the story, using nothing but taste. Then you leave the room. You don't know whether you passed when you leave the room. That's what it takes. To get there takes years of your life. You have to have a mentor, it seems. You also have to have wine tasting groups. You have to make your way to the different testing places. You're spending money on flights, hotels. It's a full-on commitment.
So, to come back to your question, what sort of people do it? Obsessive people do it. You have to be obsessed to become a master sommelier. It's not a hobby. People spend years, people have donated years of their life to this process. So, the question that happens in Corked is what happens when after spending all those years, you finally made it, and then one day you wake up and discover that you've been canceled by the Court without any explanation, which is what happens to people in the series.
JK: The central story of Corked is the blind-tasting scandal that struck the Court of Master Sommeliers. How exactly can you cheat at drinking wine?
MF: How do you cheat at drinking wine? Well, back in 2018, there was the final test for a group of people who'd spent years trying to become master sommeliers. They'd been through the other tests, and we know that at least a handful of them woke up that morning to an email with the subject line, "Heads up." And in that email was a series of letters that to you and I would mean nothing: P-G-C-N-D-P. Doesn't mean anything to you and I. But if you are a wine obsessive, you know exactly what they mean. They were some of the answers to the blind tasting, Pinot Grigio, Chateau—I'm gonna say something bad in French here. Like, you and I won't know what they mean, but they knew exactly what it meant. It's what they did next.
So, the people that got the email, they didn't tell anybody. They thought they could compartmentalize it. They went in, not all of them who got the email passed, is the weird thing. And then they went through the test and they just assumed that nobody would notice, except somebody did notice. And as soon as it comes out, it completely upends the lives of dozens of people that went through that process. And it changed the world of wine forever. The elite world of wine has never been the same since the events of 2018.
JK: How did the wine industry react to the scandal, and what has your interaction with the Court of Master Sommeliers been?
MF: Initially, it was a story of a cheating scandal, but then how it was handled by the Court of Master Sommeliers is really, I think, when it started to go off the rails. The Court made a decision that it would cancel not just the people that got the email, it would cancel everybody that was at that particular blind tasting. So that's about 20 people, slightly more than 20 people. But not all those people—in fact, most of those people—did not get the email. So, they canceled the accreditation for a bunch of innocent people that had done nothing wrong. Now, their argument was that it was impossible to know who got this email, but we now know exactly who was on the email. So, it is absolutely possible to know who was on the email, and the court was sent the original. So, they know who got the original email.
"It's not a series designed for wine obsessives. It's for people that love a good scandal."
I've personally reached out to everybody who I can find a contact detail for who was on the board and involved in the Court at the time. And everybody that I've managed to get in contact with has refused to answer questions, except one person who cryptically sent me an email from America saying, "It was the only choice we had." Their argument is once a few people got the answer, it was impossible to know who they spoke to. But is that a good enough reason to destroy the lives of more than 20 people? Just have to listen and find out.
JK: So, we see the old guard of the wine world start to crumble off the back of this scandal. How do you think the story reflects broader cultural shifts happening in society?
MF: The Court of Master Sommeliers Americas was very old, very white, very male. And I think there's been a reckoning in the world of wine that has reflected the reckoning that's happened throughout the rest of America and, indeed, the world, where they realized they needed to better reflect people that love wine, which, shockingly, involves women and people of color and all these other things. I think on a fundamental level, even if you take out the identity politics of it, I think the really crucial thing about what changed out of this, or maybe what hasn't changed enough, now that I think about it, is that the Court of Master Sommeliers, it sounds royal, it sounds regal, and it's sort of appropriate because it is a fortress, right? People spend years fighting to get inside the tent, inside the citadel. And as soon as something went wrong, they pulled up the drawbridge on these candidates.
One candidate said to me, she heard that the Court told other people not to talk to them, the class of 2018. Now, whether that's true or not remains to be seen. But I think the Court of Master Sommeliers, it is a fortress and it has not been open. They have not been open enough about what went wrong in 2018. They have not been open about what was done to these people, and a reckoning needs to come for the court.
JK: Corked was a deep-dive investigation that took you years. What is it that you enjoy most about these deep-dive investigations that you get to do for Audible?
MF: I love that we can take listeners around the world with me. I just love being able to stand in the middle of a field or in somebody's dingy basement or an alleyway in New Orleans with a microphone, and I love that people can come with me on that journey. This series takes place in cities across America and the world, even here in Australia. It is inherently global in its story. It takes place in Chicago and California and New Orleans and Nashville. It is a journey across America that you kind of come with me, but also it's a journey back in time as well.
I think that's something that you can do with audio. You can take people to different moments in time and bring it to life. The joy of doing this, particularly with Audible, is that it is an adventure. I can actually take listeners with me around the world and they can be part of that adventure. And it's fun for me, but I love that it's a vicarious sense of fun for everybody that's tuning in as well.
JK: That's actually very wicked. What was it like to be on the road for this? And are there any stories that didn't make the series?
MF: It was an amazing adventure. I have a rule that if something cool and interesting happens, it goes in. If it's good enough for you to want to tell people about, it should be part of the series. Because the series is the journey, right? The audience should be coming with you on the adventure of the series. We actually start in New Orleans. We met this incredible person telling us a ghost story on the streets of New Orleans. That's actually how the first episode starts. And when this ghost story was unfolding, we realized, me and the team putting together the show, that actually it was a fabulous kind of parable for what was about to play out, which was we were told a ghost story about New Orleans, but actually we realized it was a great way of foreshadowing everything that would unfold over the series. So, my rule is if something happens that you instinctively want to tell people about when you get back, that should be a cue that it should be part of the show.
JK: So, after all this scandal, where do you think the world of wine is going?
MF: This is still a live story for the people that it involves. The events of this story took place years ago, but the consequences, the ramifications, live on today, which is why it's important, because a lot of people have tried to sweep what happened with this scandal under the rug. They've tried to pretend like it didn't happen. They have refused to answer questions about it. They've just said “It's done, let it go.” And that's fine for those people. They get to move on with their lives. The Court of Master Sommeliers Americas would very much like to pretend that this story didn't happen. But for the people who were in that class who had their lives utterly upended, they are still living with the consequences today. They don't get to walk away.
"The scandal in the world of wine reveals just how obsession can destroy your life."
So, the reason why Corked needs to exist, beyond the fact that it's an amazing adventure into the world of wine for listeners, is that what happened with this scandal destroyed people's lives, and an organization at the center of it would like to pretend that it never happened. And that's not fair. So that's why Corked exists. It exists because people had their lives completely destroyed by these events and the decisions that were made in the wake of it. And it's important that they get their stories heard, and it's important that everyone else hears it, too, so that change can actually happen. It's true that there's been some changes at the Court of Masters Sommeliers, but they've never been held truly accountable. And they still won't talk about what happened, and that's not okay.
JK: How has your own relationship with wine changed as a result of creating this series, and has it changed the way you drink wine?
MF: I've been thinking about this. I've never been more aware of how little I know. I think there was a moment, I must've been in San Francisco when we were recording some stuff, there was a moment where I thought, "Oh, I guess I'll learn some stuff." But when you spend time with people that know the ins and outs of wine, you don't absorb anything because they just know so much more than you. I really honestly thought when we started this, I would learn more about wine [laughs].
The truth is, I got halfway through and was like "They keep spitting terroir and different grape varietals and climate things," and I'm like, "None of this is making me appreciate the wine more." Except when you sit with these master sommeliers and you drink with them, and then they identify like, "Can you taste the cut grass? Can you smell the fragrance?” In those moments you are there with them, it comes alive with you. It's one of my great hopes that people listen to this Audible Original with a glass and come on the journey. It's not a series designed for wine obsessives. It's for people that love a good scandal. But there's nothing that's stopping you from drinking while you listen. I think it is really about the psychology of people who are obsessive. It is really about a scandal that destroyed people's lives. And it is an adventure around America.
JK: What do you hope listeners will take away from Corked?
MF: I think whenever I do an Audible Original, you always hit a moment where you go, “Why?” Because I like weird niche stories. I made a career out of weird niche stories. But the thing that I'm looking for is what I call a small doorway into a big world. So, the race to breed the world's hottest chili actually reveals a world of men in pain. $10 million worth of stolen nuts reveals how your food is actually made. The scandal in the world of wine reveals just how obsession can destroy your life. That's what it's about. So, it is about that small, weird, quirky doorway, but at a certain point it has to open up a bigger world. It has to tell you something about who we are as human beings, how we operate, what makes us tick, and how things went so badly for these people.
I think there's something that audio can do really powerfully that not a lot of other mediums can, which is audio allows you quite seamlessly into people's psychology. You're not necessarily distracted by the visuals. You can jump straight into what makes this person tick. Why would you spend years trying to breed the world's hottest chili? Why would you steal $10 million worth of nuts? Or why would you cheat in a master sommelier exam when you've spent more than a decade of your life trying to become one? It's about obsession and what drives people to the point of making some really bad decisions. And once they've made these gambles, how do they pick up the pieces afterwards?
I think one of the reasons why I love audio is that when you make an Audible Original or any kind of audio, the listener is an active part of the process. You are leveraging the listener's own imagination. They are creating an image in their head of the world. And in that sense, we're partners in crime. The reason I love audio is that me and the listener, we are partners in crime creating this image in people's mind. And there's something just very intoxicating about that, that I just adore.
The beautiful thing about wine is it's often linked to all these celebrations in our lives. You have it at weddings and family dinners and things like that. It is something that should bind people together. I think the sad thing about this series is that actually this showed that wine could tear people apart. And my hope is that when people listen to it and when the Court of Master Sommeliers listens to it and the candidates listen to it, that they can find a pathway back to that essential spirit, which is that wine is supposed to bring us together. It is supposed to be something that's enjoyed communally. And my hope is that the outcome of this series is that it can be that for everybody that this story touches in the end.
JK: I am so excited to listen to this.
MF: Great.
JK: Thank you so much for your time today, Marc. I really appreciate it. It's been really great to know more about you, but also hear about this amazing story that you have coming out. I'm glad that there is still some hope for us who enjoy wine.
MF: Yes.
JK: And listeners, Corked with Marc Fennell is available now only on Audible. Thank you.
