In her first interview since the release of the NACC’s report into Robodebt, Deputy Commissioner Kylie Kilgour joins us to unpack her findings and what it all means for the public service. This is a rare chance to go beyond the written report with candid reflections on the conditions that led to one of most significant failures of public administration in Australia, and the complexities of the accountability process.

In this episode, we cover:

• the four key contributing factors to serious corrupt conduct: ignorance of the law, failure to work with lawyers, rushed timelines and senior pressure
• why being “polite and collegiate” can fail - and the risks of not making concerns unmistakably clear
• how austerity, budget cycles and unrealistic deadlines distort judgement and behaviour
• the role of toxic culture, including bullying, fear of speaking up, and the myth of untouchable senior leaders
• the difference between serious maladministration and corrupt conduct - and why some high-profile referrals did not meet the legal threshold for corrupt conduct
• what Robodebt reveals about missed opportunities to intervene - and the consequences of not listening

The NACC's Guide to Ethical Decision-Making: https://www.nacc.gov.au/research-and-guides#ethical-decision-making-a-guide

Operation Myrtleford Report: https://www.nacc.gov.au/investigation-reports-and-case-studies#operation-myrtleford

Get in touch with the NACC: https://www.nacc.gov.au/about-nacc/contact-us

Further NACC resources:

• What is corrupt conduct?
• What is serious or systemic corrupt conduct?
• Voluntary referrals: a guide

This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!

On 11 March, the National Anti-Corruption Commission released its findings on Robodebt. It found that two of the six referred public servants engaged in serious corrupt conduct, and four did not.

Caroline, Alison and Danielle discuss three things: the "low level" code of conduct failures that created the toxic soil in which corrupt conduct could grow; the detail of the NACC's findings on the Robodebt Six; and the harder, unresolved question of whether individual accountability processes can ever be adequate for system failure with Robodebt's scale of human harm.

Referenced in this episode:

• Jenny Miller, The Saturday Paper https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2026/03/21/robodebt-six-they-continue-i-am-left-with-urn-containing-the-ashes-my
• Rick Morton, Cut Through podcast (Crikey) https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cut-through/id1616953809?i=1000756172293
• NACC, findings on Robodebt referrals, 11 March 2025 https://www.nacc.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2026-03/Operation%20Myrtleford%20Investigation%20Report.pdf
• Commissioner Holmes, Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme — sealed section https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Tabled_Documents/15488

This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!

In our last episode on Mad Cow Disease, we take our final lessons from the public servicing of this massive health, agricultural and economic crisis. With the benefit of hindsight, we weigh the significant market interventions and public perception against actual transmission data.

In this episode:

• What decision making looks like under radical uncertainty, where its government's job to keep things running.
• The massive supply chain repercussions of the beef ban, and how much expertise policymakers actually need when making interventions.
• Whether the public has a realistic understanding of what governments can achieve in a crisis and whether governments can still have an honest conversation about trade offs for the public good.
• Why sensing the public mood is not “political”, but a critical source of information about whether policy is working or failing.
• Whether more information and transparency actually build confidence in a democratised media environment, including social media and large language models.
• Where actual transmission ended up, and how it compares with other risk calculations and personal mitigations.
• What all of this means for modern public servants operating in systems where uncertainty is the norm, not the exception.

Insiders, Chris Bowen - Energy Minister (22/3/2026)https://iview.abc.net.au/show/insiders?utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared

The Rest Is History podcast - Revolution In Iran | Fall of the Shah (Part 1) https://therestishistory.com/episodes/fall-of-the-shah-part-1

Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Talebhttps://www.penguin.com.au/books/fooled-by-randomness-9780141031484

This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!