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The Meg and Amy Show

The Meg and Amy Show

By: WRKdefined Podcast Network
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 Join best friends Meg Bear and Amy Wilson on The Meg and Amy Show – a podcast for big-picture thinkers who are ready to challenge the status quo. As former tech executives and seasoned business leaders, Meg and Amy have spent decades leading through change. Now, they’re joining forces to break down the trends they’ve lived and helped shape.All rights reserved by WRKdefined Career Success Economics
Episodes
  • Episode 29 | Jason Averbook on 4 Forces Reshaping Work: Why AI Transformation Isn't About Technology

    Episode 29 | Jason Averbook on 4 Forces Reshaping Work: Why AI Transformation Isn't About Technology
    Dec 19 2025
    🚀 Jason Averbook reveals the 4 forces creating the biggest change HR has ever seen—and why 95% of AI projects are failing. This isn't about technology; it's about trust, engagement, and fundamentally rethinking how work gets done. ⚡ THE 4 FORCES RESHAPING WORK: 1. Engagement is slipping (trust in companies at all-time lows) 2. Jobs and skills are changing rapidly 3. Early career on-ramp is broken 4. AI is being pushed into unprepared organizations 🔑 KEY INSIGHTS: - We're asking people to change while wearing "uniforms they don't trust" - AI transformation is a people problem, not a technology problem - Most companies are trapped in task optimization vs. workflow revolution - Early talent needs to challenge assumptions, not just fill roles - "Proof of work" beats "proof of education" in today's job market - Unlearning matters more than skill development 💡 FRAMEWORKS REVEALED: - Jason's 4 Sets: Mindset, Heart Set, Skill Set, Tool Set - Amy's AI Transformation Maturity Model - The FAFO Philosophy (Fool Around and Find Out) - AI Enablement Centers vs. traditional training 🎯 TACTICAL TAKEAWAYS: - Build proof of work without a job (18-year-old built 5 apps example) - Use LinkedIn to access networks, not just contact people - Start with workflows, then add technology (not the reverse) - Invest in unlearning before upskilling - Create "challenge partners" across age groups 🏢 THE PEOPLESOFT CONNECTION: Jason, Meg, and Amy share insights from their days as young professionals disrupting the status quo at PeopleSoft—and why today's organizations need that same fresh perspective. Jason Averbook is Senior Partner and Global Leader of Digital HR Strategy at Mercer, guiding 1,000+ organizations through transformation. This conversation bridges cutting-edge AI strategy with timeless leadership principles. ⏰ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Introduction & The 4 Forces Framework 07:55 Trust Crisis: Why Engagement Matters 17:00 AI Enablement Centers vs. Traditional Training 28:37 Early Career Crisis: Proof of Work vs. Education 41:09 Diversity Redefined: Age, Context & Experience 42:43 Amy's AI Transformation Maturity Model 44:45 Jason's 4 Sets Framework 47:40 Leadership Corner: Merging Dysfunctional Teams 🔗 CONNECT: Submit Leadership Questions: [EMAIL] The Meg and Amy Show: [LINKS] Jason Averbook: [LINKEDIN] #AITransformation #Leadership #HRStrategy #DigitalTransformation #FutureOfWork #EmployeeEngagement #EarlyCareers #WorkflowOptimization #MegAndAmyShow 📚 RESOURCES: Jason's Now to Next Podcast | https://open.spotify.com/show/1zrFUr0dBTUG2EUcK8ca5g How HR Took Over the World | https://www.economist.com/business/2025/11/10/how-hr-took-over-the-world The Palantir Model | https://blog.palantir.com/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-palantir-forward-deployed-software-engineer-45ef2de257b1Meg Bear on WTF Is a Forward-Deployed Engineer? by Thomas Otter | https://thomasotter.substack.com/p/wtf-is-a-forward-deployed-engineer/comment/110916540 Amy's Transformation Maturity Model | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-transformation-paradox-why-todays-innovation-tomorrows-amy-wilson-8adqf/ 🔗 CONNECT: Jason Averbook: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonaverbook/ Amy Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/ Meg Bear: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/ Instagram: @megandamyshow
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    54 mins
  • Episode 28 | HR Tech's Top Analyst John Sumser: AI Reality, Career Reinvention & What's Broken in HR

    Episode 28 | HR Tech's Top Analyst John Sumser: AI Reality, Career Reinvention & What's Broken in HR
    Dec 12 2025
    🚀 FROM FOOD CRITIC TO KITCHEN: John Sumser, HR tech's leading independent analyst for over 20 years, reveals what happens when you step from the sidelines into operations—and why most of what we believe about AI, HR, and career success is wrong. Learn how to navigate uncertainty as opportunity, why "I don't know" is the most powerful thing a leader can say, and what the next 5 years hold for HR in this candid conversation about transformation and truth-telling. ⏰ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Teaser: The Best Clips 02:21 Welcome & Introduction 03:03 The Door-to-Door Santa Story 05:03 Polaroid's $100M Mistake: Old Problems, New Technology 10:00 Navigating Recession and Uncertainty 15:40 Comfort with Uncertainty as a Career Tool 18:00 From Food Critic to Kitchen: The Analyst Becomes an Operator 20:30 "I Don't Know" - The Most Powerful Leadership Tool 22:00 What Surprised Him About Being Inside 25:48 Re-igniting HR Examiner with Heather Bussing 28:00 AI's 80% Problem: Why Silicon Valley's $20 FUD is Working 31:55 Anthropomorphism: When AI Feels Like Your Friend 35:00 The Gigawatt Problem: AI's Energy Reality 40:00 Five Years Out: HR's Cracks Are Starting to Show 42:30 "What the Hell Do You Need Recruiters For?" 45:00 Strategy = Alignment (Not What HR Thinks It Means) 48:00 Leadership Corner: Caught Between Competing Executives 🔑 KEY INSIGHTS: - People take new technology and solve old problems without understanding what the new tech can do—this is how Polaroid failed, and it's exactly where we are with AI today - The difference between being a food critic and working in the kitchen: analysts imagine smooth stories, operators learn to wrap stories around chaos - "I don't know" is the most powerful thing you can say—it gives you a path out and creates space for improvisation - LLMs are 80-84% accurate, which means 1 out of every 5-10 words is wrong—and that makes them unusable for most HR applications - AI companies want you to anthropomorphize their tools so you'll lower your expectations and stay sticky with their product - In 5 years: People closer to the problem will solve it—recruiting shouldn't be centralized, it's a first-level supervisor's job - HR is an "ocean of exceptions to budget discipline" while every other function has rigorous budget management - The line from checkbook to productivity runs AROUND HR, not through it—and that has to change 📚 RESOURCES: HR Examiner: https://www.hrexaminer.com (John's analysis and commentary) John's Articles: 80% Isn't Very Good | https://www.hrexaminer.com/p/80-isnt-very-good Anti-Anthropomorphism Prompt | https://www.hrexaminer.com/p/anti-anthropomorphism-prompt Promptly Transparent | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/promptly-transparent-john-sumser-qwjgc/? Sam Altman on AI's Energy Consumption | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnl833wXRz0 Democrats Seek New Relationship With Fossil Fuels | https://www.semafor.com/article/12/04/2025/democrats-seek-a-new-relationship-with-fossil-fuels 🔗 CONNECT: John Sumser: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsumser/ Amy Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/ Meg Bear: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/ Instagram: @megandamyshow This episode features one of the most provocative conversations we've had about the gap between AI hype and AI reality, why HR's current design is broken, and what happens when someone who's been watching for decades steps into the arena. John doesn't hold back—and neither do we. #AITransformation #HRTech #CareerReinvention #Leadership #FutureOfWork #MegAndAmyShow
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    52 mins
  • Episode 27 | Your Share of the Profits: Scott Santens on Why UBI Is Obvious, Not Radical

    Episode 27 | Your Share of the Profits: Scott Santens on Why UBI Is Obvious, Not Radical
    Dec 5 2025
    Finland – Universal Basic Income Pilot🚀 THE CASE FOR GIVING PEOPLE MONEY: UBI expert Scott Santens reveals why the most radical idea in economics might be the simplest - just give people cash. Discover how Alaska has proven this works for 40+ years, why his crowdfunded basic income changed everything he thought about work, and what happens when we shift from survival mode to abundance thinking. ⏰ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Introduction: The Man Living UBI 02:33 How Scott Crowdfunded His Own Basic Income 07:32 What Universal Basic Income Actually Is 08:51 Why Work Requirements Don't Work 10:36 The Billionaire Question: Why Universal Matters 15:38 The Power to Say No 17:46 Reduced Stress Changes Everything 20:13 The Biggest Impact Is Always on Kids 22:28 Automation Since the 1970s: We're Already Living It 25:04 The Business Case for Consumption 27:57 Alaska: 40+ Years of Proof 36:29 Trust, Finland & the Rory Stewart Connection 46:44 Star Trek vs. Dystopia: Two Possible Futures 51:35 Amy's Aha Moment: The Dividend Concept 54:19 Where to Give Cash With No Strings Attached 57:17 We Have the Data - Time to Act 59:28 Leadership Corner: Moving from Full-Time to Portfolio 🔑 KEY INSIGHTS: - How living on crowdfunded UBI taught Scott about human potential - Why Alaska proves UBI works (and has for decades without inflation) - The hidden connection between stress reduction and crime prevention - Why cash beats free services every single time - How economic security literally rewires decision-making - The difference between surviving and thriving economies 📚 RESOURCES: Scott's UBI FAQ: scottsantens.com Basic Income Show: https://www.youtube.com/c/ScottSantens Income To Support All Foundation: itsafoundation.orgWhat If Everybody Didn't Have to Work to Get Paid? | https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/what-if-everybody-didnt-have-to-work-to-get-paid/393428/Basic Income Grant (BIG) in Namibia | https://centreforpublicimpact.org/public-impact-fundamentals/basic-income-grant-big-in-namibia/Income Dividends and Subjective Survival in a Cherokee Indian Cohort | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7250001/How AI will impact the future of work with Kara Swisher and Betsey Stevenson | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUrBYWQAcpECash Transfers and Child Welfare: Lessons from Alaska | https://www.nber.org/digest/202401/cash-transfers-and-child-welfare-lessons-alaska?page=1&perPage=50To End Extreme Poverty, Give Cash — Not Advice | Rory Stewart | TED | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt0HOe7gf7IFinland – Universal Basic Income Pilot | https://weall.org/resource/finland-universal-basic-income-pilotManna: Two Visions of Humanity's Future Book | https://www.amazon.com/Manna-Two-Visions-Humanitys-Future-ebook/dp/B007HQH67UEverything is Figureoutable Book | https://amazn.so/5wcD9tFIkigai: The Japanese Secret to a Long and Happy Life | https://amazn.so/yNaA8GI Thanks to Laurie Ruettimann for the introduction! #UBI #UniversalBasicIncome #ScottSantens #AlaskaDividend #FutureOfWork #Economics #Alaska #Dividend #NegativeIncomeTax #MegAndAmyShow 🔗 CONNECT: Scott Santens: scottsantens.com Leadership Questions: amywilsonadvisor@gmail.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show
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    1 hr and 9 mins
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