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An extraordinary conversation with Nicolas de Oliveira and Nicola Oxley, the writer-curator duo who literally wrote the books on installation art and founded the Museum of Installation in London. For nearly 40 years, they've been chroniclers, producers, curators, and advocates for a medium that barely had a name when they first started.

From publishing the definitive Installation Art books (1994, 2003) and commissioning hundreds of new works to building an extensive archive – Nicolas and Nicola have been at the coalface of installation art's evolution.

In this wide-ranging discussion, they share what it was like convincing galleries that installation art even existed, why good documentation became their mission, and how they've sustained independent curatorial practice for four decades on "absolute shoestring budgets."

Key insights from this episode:

• How installation art emerged and why galleries insisted it was "just sculpture"

• Coining the term "immersive" in their 2003 book (before it became ubiquitous)

• Their philosophy of curating as co-production

• The economics of independent spaces: how friendships sustain what funding cannot

• Why they turned down a massive London space and turned to making books

• The difference between installation art and the "entertainment industry" of immersive experiences

• Advice for emerging artists: practice comes first, outcomes come later

Nicolas de Oliveira and Nicola Oxley are based in London and run SE8 Gallery in Deptford. Their books Installation Art (1994) and Installation Art in the New Millennium (2003) remain foundational texts in the field.

They publish artist books under their imprint Mulberry Tree Press and continue to curate exhibitions internationally while maintaining one of the most extensive archives of installation art documentation in the world.

00:26 Discovering Installation Art

01:50 Early Influences and Inspirations

06:24 Founding Unit 7 Gallery

07:30 The Role of Documentation

14:45 Museum of Installation

18:30 SE8 Gallery and International Projects

20:05 Challenges of Space and Real Estate

24:10 Curatorial Practices and Artist Relationships

36:09 Writing Process and Collaboration

43:02 Funding and Sustainability

47:06 Installation Art and the Art Market

01:05:08 Supporting Artists Through Time and Commitment

01:07:36 Advice for Emerging Installation Practitioners

01:17:58 Curating Shows in Different Countries

01:24:09 Documenting and Archiving Installations

01:43:44 Defining Installation Art and Its Future

SE8 Gallery: https://se8.gallery/ | https://www.instagram.com/nicode.oliveira?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Installation Art (1996): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12208566-installation-art

Installation Art in the New Millennium (2003): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1972215.Installation_Art_in_the_New_Millennium

Our interview with Hans op de Beeck: https://installationartpodcast.com/hans-op-de-beeck-018

Bonus episode: What is Installation Art:

Try Descript: https://get.descript.com/s8kjemvu79fz

An in-depth conversation with award-winning sculptor and installation artist Zadok Ben-David, whose practice spans delicate miniature work to large-scale public installations. From his early beginnings in Yemen and Israel to representing his country at the Venice Biennale, Zadok shares the philosophical and practical journey behind his internationally acclaimed work. Discover how he transforms metal into poetic metaphors exploring human nature, evolution, and our relationship with the natural world (and how one installation changed a stranger's life forever).

Key insights from this episode:

• The path from abstract expressionism at St Martin's School of Art to creating massive figurative installations

• How 30,000 hand-painted flowers became one of the world's most travelled installations and the team of assistants who helped create them

• Behind the scenes of installing work across five continents, from prisoners in Germany to 70 assistants in Uzbekistan

• The commercial strategy that funds large-scale installations through smaller original works

• Why Zadok turned down a $1 million public art commission to maintain artistic integrity

• The profound moment when his Blackfield installation helped a Holocaust survivor find hope again

Zadok Ben-David is based in London and Portugal. You can find out more about his work on his website https://www.zadokbendavid.com/ and follow him on Instagram @zadokstudio https://www.instagram.com/zadokstudio/

Exhibition “FLOWERS. Art from the Renaissance to Artificial Intelligence” in Rome until 22 February 2026: https://www.chiostrodelbramante.it/post_mostra/flowers-flowers-art/

03:27 Work-Life Balance Insights

06:15 Journey to Art and Family Influence

09:17 Art School Challenges and Triumphs

10:19 Moving to London and Early Struggles

15:15 Discovering Sculpture and Teaching

21:06 First Installations

25:17 Animal Metaphors in Art

34:25 Global Exhibitions and Unique Experiences

38:23 Commercial Aspects of Art

40:33 People I Saw, But Never Met

44:58 Art Installations Around the World

48:58 The Other Side of Midnight

54:44 Challenges in Art Installations

01:04:37 The Healing Power of Art

01:11:40 Upcoming Exhibitions and Contact Information

Also mentioned in this episode:

Anish Kapoor: https://anishkapoor.com/ | https://www.instagram.com/dirty_corner/

Jerusalem Art Academy: https://www.bezalel.ac.il/en | https://www.instagram.com/bezalel_academy | @bezalelacademyofartanddesi1460

University of Reading: https://www.reading.ac.uk/ | https://www.instagram.com/uniofreading/ | @UniofReading

Chelsea College of Arts:

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In this bonus episode, host Anastasia Parmson explores what it really means to approach residencies as an installation artist. Beyond the logistics of time, space, and materials, we dive into bigger questions that shape the medium:

• How to make large-scale, site-specific work in short timeframes and unfamiliar contexts?

• What happens when you choose temporary or fragile materials instead of archival ones?

• Is the value of installation art in the object, the process or the audience experience?

• Could installation art be considered disposable or should we always aim for permanence?

Drawing from a recent experimental residency at DRAW Space in Sydney, Anastasia reflects on the challenges of working fast, improvising with cardboard and collaborating with others. But more importantly, you’ll be invited to consider your own approach to residencies, materials, and the long-term value of installation art.

Whether you’re an installation artist or simply curious about how these questions play out in practice, this episode offers insights and provocations designed to spark discussion.

00:00 Introduction and Listener Review

01:54 Invitation to Draw Space Residency

03:47 Challenges and Initial Thoughts

06:10 Execution and Community Involvement

08:21 Building the Installation

12:01 Final Touches and Open Day

15:43 Reflections on the Experiment

24:49 Conclusion and Future Plans

Did this episode raise questions or spark ideas?

We’d love to hear from you! Share your thoughts, stories, or residency experiences:

• Leave a voice message: https://www.speakpipe.com/installationartpodcast

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• Use the contact form: https://installationartpodcast.com/contact

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Also mentioned in this epsisode:

DRAW Space: https://drawspace.org/ | https://www.instagram.com/drawspacesydney

Mentioned in this episode:

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