Episodes

  • Episode 133: Coalition Chaos, Net Zero Drama, and Trump's Tanking Polls

    Episode 133: Coalition Chaos, Net Zero Drama, and Trump's Tanking Polls
    Nov 13 2025
    Recorded: November 6, 2025 (Oaks Day)Hosts: Joel Hill (Jack the Insider) & Hong Kong JackEpisode DescriptionJoin Jack the Insider and Hong Kong Jack as they dissect the Coalition's spectacular implosion, the Nationals' abandonment of net zero, and why Dennis Shanahan called this opposition "the worst in 40 years." Plus: Trump's approval hits rock bottom, US midterm election results send shockwaves, and why Ireland elected a grim president who toured Syria with Assad.Timestamps & Show Notes00:00:25 - Welcome & Oaks Day ChatThe Jacks kick off discussing Melbourne's Oaks Day and why it was always better than the Cup for racing enthusiasts. Hong Kong Jack shares a memorable story about a judge who mysteriously adjourned court so everyone could hit the track.​00:02:39 - Coalition in Crisis: Net Zero AbandonedThe National Party abandons net zero emissions targets, putting enormous pressure on the Liberal Party. Dennis Shanahan declares this the "worst opposition in 40 years" after a horror question time where Alex Hawke couldn't understand basic parliamentary procedures.​00:05:38 - South Australian Liberal Party Mass ExodusOver 200 members quit the SA Liberal Party in protest of Susan Ley's leadership and failure to abandon net zero. The state branch, dominated by hard-right figures like Senator Alex Antic, has a history of internal bloodshed.​00:07:33 - What Does Net Zero Actually Mean?The Jacks discuss how net zero has become an "article of faith" for enough Australians to matter politically, even if most people can't define it. It essentially represents action on climate change in voters' minds.​00:12:29 - Can Susan Ley Survive to Christmas?Hong Kong Jack predicts Ley might not survive until Christmas as Liberal leader, noting the killing season is upon us with the last parliamentary sitting coming up. Her best chance? That nobody else wants the awful job.​00:14:38 - The James Patterson ProblemSenator James Patterson is described as a rising star who actually reads his briefs, but he's stuck in the Senate. Finding him a safe House seat in Victoria is virtually impossible with Monash (the safest Liberal seat) held by only 4%.​00:16:58 - Liberal Party: From Major to MinorJack the Insider argues we're witnessing the Liberal Party's descent from major to minor party status, not unlike what happened to the United Australia Party in 1943. With only 26 members in parliament and 24% primary vote, the party faces potential oblivion.​00:18:34 - One Nation's Rise: 15-16% and GrowingOne Nation's support has surged from 6% to 15-16%, with the party establishing branches across NSW and Queensland. The biggest threat isn't to the Liberals, but to the Nationals in mining-based seats like Hunter and Capricornia.​00:21:46 - COP in Adelaide: A Billion Dollar Boondoggle?The proposed Conference of the Parties climate summit in Adelaide carries a $1 billion price tag. Hong Kong Jack questions who would notice if it didn't happen "apart from the grifters."​00:23:27 - National Anti-Corruption Commission TroublesCommissioner Paul Brereton faces serious conflict of interest issues due to his Army Reserve role and involvement in Afghanistan war crimes inquiries. The commission operates largely in secret, disappointing those who wanted an ICAC-style public inquiry.​00:28:23 - RoboDebt: Why No Criminal Charges?Discussion of the SBS documentary on RoboDebt and why senior public servants who knew the scheme was illegal haven't faced criminal charges. Some even got promoted despite their roles in the scandal.​00:30:19 - Bureau of Meteorology Website DisasterThe BOM's new website launched right before severe Queensland storms, leaving users unable to understand warnings. The acting CEO was dragged before Minister Murray Watt for a ritual flogging and awkward video apology.​00:35:52 - "Free" Solar Power AnnouncementChris Bowen announces three hours of free solar power daily for homes with smart meters in NSW, SE Queensland, and SA. Hong Kong Jack calls it "smoke and mirrors" - really just an attempt to shift demand to low-usage periods.​00:38:16 - Streaming Services Must Fund Aussie ContentNew laws will require streaming platforms to invest 10% of expenditure or 7.5% of revenue in Australian content. Hong Kong Jack immediately asks if 98% can go to true crime documentaries.​00:41:56 - Coalition Support Crashes to Record Low 24%Newspoll shows Coalition primary vote at just 24%, down from 40% in February. Combined with Labor's 33-34%, less than 60% of voters support the major parties - down from 80% in 2004.​00:44:39 - Andrew Neil: The Death of Centre-Right PartiesDiscussion of Andrew Neil's speech to the Centre for Independent Studies about how conservative parties have lost the metropolitan, educated "lanyard class" who were once their base. The UK Conservatives now hold just 9 metropolitan seats.​00:48:34 - The Great Inversion: Rich Counties Vote DemocratIn the 1950s, Republicans won 56%...
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    1 hr and 33 mins
  • Two Jacks - Episode 132: Halloween, Prince Andrew, and the Future of Patriotism

    Two Jacks - Episode 132: Halloween, Prince Andrew, and the Future of Patriotism
    Nov 13 2025
    AI slop shownotes as usual. Apologies for delay.Episode recorded: October 31, 2025Hosts: Joel Hill (Jack the Insider) and Jack (Hong Kong Jack)Episode Title Suggestions:"Halloween, Heists, and the House of Windsor""From Prince Andrew to Patriotism: A Global Round-Up""The Great Unraveling: Royals, Republics, and Rock T-Shirts""Crown Jewels, Cricket, and Cultural Appropriation""Episode 132: When Privilege Meets Reality"Show Notes with Timestamps00:00:26 - Welcome & Halloween CelebrationsThe Jacks kick off with a discussion about Halloween and All Souls Day, debating whether it's an American import or a genuine cultural celebration. Hong Kong Jack describes the costume-clad children heading to school and the refreshing lack of political correctness in Halloween dress.00:03:15 - Americanisation of Culture DebateJack challenges the hypocrisy of those who complain about American cultural influence while wearing blue jeans, sneakers, and listening to rock and roll.00:04:16 - Prince Andrew's DownfallDeep dive into Prince Andrew's stripping of royal titles and exile to Sandringham. The hosts discuss the ongoing Epstein scandal, alleged misconduct, and the monarchy's survival strategy. Jack the Insider argues this is about protecting the institution itself, not just managing Andrew's behavior.00:08:25 - Royal Entitlement & The SuccessionDiscussion of Andrew's bloated sense of entitlement, his eighth place in line to the throne, and comparisons to Edward VIII. The hosts debate whether the Royal Family can truly cut Andrew adrift or if he remains a necessary burden.00:12:36 - Copyright, Paywalls, and Making a DollarAnalysis of a copyright controversy involving an aggregator charging $100/month to over 100 prominent Australians for content stolen from behind paywalls. The Australian media's response and the broader implications for journalism funding.00:20:30 - AI and Copyright ProtectionThe Albanese government's move to enshrine copyright protections against tech giants like Meta/Facebook, which pirated millions of books to train AI models. The Productivity Commission's controversial position favoring tech companies over creators.00:24:48 - Can the Left Be Patriotic?Joe Hildebrand's campaign questioning left-wing patriotism sparks a broader conversation about what Australian values actually mean, the "Build Back Australia" movement, and why we can't manufacture cars anymore.00:32:27 - The Anzac Day RevivalTracing how Anzac Day went from near-extinction in the 1970s to becoming a major cultural touchstone, with young Australians traveling to Gallipoli, the Kokoda Track, and other war memorial sites.00:35:47 - Immigration and Cultural StrengthJack's powerful argument that the true test of patriotism is whether new arrivals see themselves as Australian and whether our culture is strong enough to absorb them—contrasting with Europe's struggles with multiculturalism.00:40:13 - Organized Crime and the Tobacco Black MarketColes announces a 57% drop in cigarette sales as Australia's tobacco excise policies create a multi-billion dollar black market. Discussion of whether reducing excise is the only way to combat entrenched organized crime.00:47:46 - Stamp Duty as a Housing BarrierReserve Bank Governor Michelle Bullock criticizes stamp duty as preventing retirees from downsizing and workers from relocating. Analysis of how $65,000 in stamp duty on a $1.5M property creates market paralysis.00:50:46 - One Nation RebrandsPauline Hanson drops her name from the party as One Nation polls at 15% and builds electoral infrastructure. Comparisons to the Australian Democrats' evolution and discussion of whether they can become a serious second-tier party.00:54:29 - The Great French Jewel HeistUpdates on arrests following the $150M Louvre heist of French crown jewels—were they criminal masterminds or idiots without an exit plan?00:55:50 - Japan's First Woman Prime MinisterJapan's impressive new conservative Prime Minister, her Margaret Thatcher connection, and the challenges of governing in Japan's volatile political environment.00:57:12 - Argentina's Milei Wins BigJavier Milei's landslide midterm victory (41% of the vote) raises questions about Trump's financial bailout and the role of foreign aid in domestic politics.00:59:15 - Gaza Ceasefire and Hamas ControlAnalysis of the fragile Gaza ceasefire, Hamas reasserting control, and the impossible dilemma of who will enforce peace when no country wants the casualties.01:02:17 - Anthony Albanese's Joy Division T-ShirtThe controversy over the PM wearing a Joy Division band t-shirt (with Nazi concentration camp origins) off the VIP plane. Jane Hume's dismissal: "Anyone wearing a rock band t-shirt is a bit naff."01:05:32 - APEC Conference in South KoreaTrump's meetings with Xi Jinping and other Pacific leaders, with results to be determined in the coming months.01:06:41 - Politicians and Fake BackstoriesFrom George Santos to Gavin Newsom claiming ...
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    1 hr and 36 mins
  • Episode 198 - Skepticon 2025

    Episode 198 - Skepticon 2025
    Oct 27 2025

    The Conditional Release Program - Live from Skepticon 2025! Well, almost. We did a re-record. We were limited to an hour and we had some issues getting the audio file right. So we just did the script again!

    You won't hear the riotous laugher and rapturous applause from the audience but if you make believe you might just hear us being funny and getting a reaction.

    Skepticon was a lot of fun - next year it will be in Sydney and any folks that want to check out the Skeptics should head over to https://www.skeptics.com.au/ and go meet some likeminded folks!

    In this episode we look at the Ozenkadnook Tiger, Joel's cooked upbringing and the miracles of drinking piss. But we also revisit the important condition known as ME/CFS which has so far been terribly mismanaged by conventional medicine. Sometimes they get it wrong too.

    Hope you enjoy this one as much as we enjoyed crafting it. Normal programming to resume in full soon - good things ahead :-)

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    2 hrs and 2 mins
  • The Two Jacks - Episode 131 - Diplomacy, Deadlines & Drama

    The Two Jacks - Episode 131 - Diplomacy, Deadlines & Drama
    Oct 27 2025

    Just FYI there is no @thetwojacks account on 'social media' - well, not that I know of. How good is AI! We will surely be replaced. Soon. Definitely worth the water usage.


    Proposed Episode Titles
    • "Diplomacy, Deadlines & Drama: The Two Jacks #131"
    • "Cargo Plane Crashes, Canberra Intrigues: The Two Jacks #131"
    • "Political Punchlines and Parliamentary Plots — Two Jacks Podcast"
    • "Mineral Deals & Media Moments: Episode 131"
    Episode Summary

    In this episode, The Two Jacks break down a tumultuous week in global politics, aviation, and Australian parliamentary affairs. Highlights include a fatal cargo plane crash at Hong Kong airport, Prime Minister Albanese’s high-stakes visit to Washington, DC, and the shifting sands of party leadership in Canberra. Lively debate, incisive commentary, and recurring humor fill an hour packed with analysis—from the fate of Prince Andrew to the fallout of Brittany Higgins’ legal battles.

    Segment Timestamps & Key Topics

    TimestampTopic/Segment

    00:01Greetings; episode intro and context00:16Hong Kong airport cargo plane crash — causes, casualties, aftermath01:32Anthony Albanese, Trump, and Australia’s US delegation — diplomatic exchanges04:32US-Australia $8.5B critical minerals framework agreement, Waggerup & Arafura09:27Coalition criticism: Kevin Rudd’s role, embarrassment, media moments12:14Internal Liberal Party analysis—Paterson, Taylor, Lay, women’s vote, future18:41Barnaby Joyce’s future: One Nation rumors, role of minor parties25:25Expansion of the House of Representatives — numbers, constitutional effects33:15Senate comparisons: Australia vs US, anecdotes about Ricky Muir44:42Higgins-Lehrmann-Reynolds fallout: legal actions, media fatigue53:24Australia in global happiness rankings, comparison to Scandinavian countries58:30Closing remarks and preview for next episode

    Call to Action
    • Subscribe, rate, and review on your podcast platform of choice.
    • Send feedback or questions via the show's website or email.
    • Follow @TheTwoJacks on social media for updates and more content.
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    1 hr and 36 mins
  • The Two Jacks - Episode 130 - Tax Battles, Hostage Deals & Political Spectacle

    The Two Jacks - Episode 130 - Tax Battles, Hostage Deals & Political Spectacle
    Oct 27 2025

    What's for dinner? AI slop shownotes! Sorry for the delay in uploading the episode. Life is coming at me HARD AND FAST. All the proposed titles were shit so I went with this one. The others are in the slop pile!

    Enjoy!


    Welcome back to Two Jacks, episode 130, with Jack the Insider and Hong Kong Jack. This episode covers a wide range of timely political and global issues, with the usual mix of keen analysis and witty commentary.

    Main Topics Covered:
    • Australian Prime Minister's Leave and US Rare Minerals Deal: The PM is on leave ahead of a notable meeting with President Trump in Washington, discussing a rare minerals trade deal to boost Australia-US relations amid China tensions.
    • Polling on AUKUS Support: Discussion on recent polling showing declining Australian support for the AUKUS alliance, attributed to mixed feelings about the Trump administration.
    • Superannuation Tax Policy Backdown: Analysis of Treasurer Jim Chalmers' policy retreat on superannuation taxation for balances over $10 million, the political fallout, and implications for affected Australians.
    • Senator Lydia Thorpe AFP Investigation: Coverage of Lydia Thorpe's controversial speech calling for parliament to be burned down, leading to an AFP probe and censure motions, with commentary on political theatrics.
    • Gaza Peace Deal and Middle East Geopolitics: The multi-stage peace process including hostage-for-prisoner exchanges, disarmament challenges, regional powers' roles, and the strategic shift in Middle East alignments.
    • Nobel Peace Prize and Donald Trump: Reflecting on Trump's recent peace efforts and lap of honour, juxtaposed with the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to Maria Corina Machado.
    • US-China Soybean Trade and US Farm Bailout: The collapse of US soybean exports to China and the Argentine bailout, and their impact on American farmers and politics.
    • Lawfare and Political Investigations: Updates on legal cases involving James Comey and Letitia James, touching on the politicization of investigations.
    • Male Circumcision and RFK Jr's Autism Claim: Debunking claims related to circumcision and autism, highlighting misinformation spread by RFK Jr.
    • Tory Party Leadership and UK Politics: Thoughts on new Tory leader Babcock, political instability in France, and Britain’s prime ministerial history in polls.
    • Miscellaneous Topics: Lifestyle trends like youth reviving old technology, a documentary recommendation on John Candy, and Australian sports including the Women's ODI Cricket World Cup and AFL trade week.
    Episode Highlights:
    • Insightful takes on the high-stakes geopolitical shifts involving the US, China, Middle East, and Australia.
    • Candid political analysis of Australian domestic policy battles on superannuation.
    • A balanced view on political spectacle versus substance in issues like the AFP probe into Lydia Thorpe.
    • Commentary on the complexity behind the Gaza peace deal and the roles of regional players.
    • Humorous moments including commentary on Boris Johnson’s antics and John Candy documentary reflections.
    Recommendations from Hosts:
    • Get professional financial advice on superannuation, especially if nearing retirement.
    • Consider watching the John Candy documentary "I Like Me" on Amazon Prime.
    • Keep an eye on ongoing developments in trade politics and international diplomacy.
    Audience Engagement:

    Listeners are encouraged to drop comments, questions, and suggestions for future topics. The hosts thank the audience for their continued support and sign off until next week.

    Proposed Episode Titles
    1. "Rare Minerals, AUKUS Woes & Gaza Peace: Two Jacks Episode 130"
    2. "Superannuation Shakeup and Middle East Moves with Two Jacks"
    3. "Politics, Peace, and Protest: The Latest with Two Jacks"
    4. "From Canberra to Sharm El Sheikh: Two Jacks on the Global Stage"
    5. "Tax Battles, Hostage Deals & Political Spectacle – Two Jacks 130"
    6. "Australia, Trump, and Turmoil: The Two Jacks 130 Deep Dive"
    7. "Power Plays in Politics and Peace – Two Jacks Legendary 130"
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    1 hr and 30 mins
  • UNLOCKED - Premium Episode 4 - Miracle Mineral Mud and Vaccine Extraction

    UNLOCKED - Premium Episode 4 - Miracle Mineral Mud and Vaccine Extraction
    Sep 30 2025

    While we are busy preparing for Skepticon here's a rerun from the good old days when life was simpler and all we had to worry about was a bit of a pandemic. Here's the Skepticon blurb:

    Attention Melbournians - SKEPTICON IS ON THIS WEEKEND!

    Yes folks we are finally doing a live podcast. Time to crack out the snake oil dispenser and drink a pint of piss - it's time to make Melbourne healthy again. Will it work? Probably not. But there will be:

    Merch giveways

    CBCo vouchers

    A vaguely funny podcast recording which may or may not actually make the main feed

    Visual gags (hopefully) that won't be funny on the audio (if you even get to hear it)

    Bent spoons

    We will be on at 1.45pm Saturday after the lunch break.

    If you are feeling particularly skeptical, get a weekend ticket and come watch some other (inferior) sessions. Come sit next to me! I'll be the bald guy sitting with all my mates (alone).

    Otherwise day tickets are on sale and for people who can't make it (or want to save a few bucks) - a Zoom ticket is also available.

    There's also a dinner Saturday night - come eat with us!

    Skepticon is a not for profit in the genuine sense - it costs nerds money to make it happen at all. So tickets go to a good cause - keeping this thing going.

    And hey, you might get some free beer vouchers and exclusive limited edition merch!

    Tickets are available here: https://skepticon.org.au/tickets/

    Hope to meet some of you fine folks on the day.


    And here's the podcast blurb!


    Got vaccinated? That's bad. You better get that sorted. How about some IV bleach?

    Feeling a bit too clean and slightly under the weather? Eat some mud.

    Grifters gonna grift and honestly they'll go to wild lengths to get your money. This episode we look at some incredibly awful ways people are attempting to remove the vaccine, to save their souls from the devil jab. It's not good.

    Merry Bleachmas!
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    44 mins
  • The Two Jacks - Episode 127 - Net Zero, Net Loss: Climate Politics Reshaping the Right

    The Two Jacks - Episode 127 - Net Zero, Net Loss: Climate Politics Reshaping the Right
    Sep 19 2025
    AI slop shownotes as usual. Enjoy! Opening Segment (00:00 - 02:00)Personal catch-up between the hostsHong Kong Jack celebrates a major birthday in Macau with surprise family visitDiscussion of Hong Kong-Macau travel via new bridge/tunnel (1 hour 20 minutes door-to-door)Major Discussion TopicsAustralian Politics - Coalition Crisis (02:00 - 15:30)Key Points:Polling disaster: Coalition at 27% approval rating, Labor leads 58-42 two-party preferredElectoral wipeout: Liberal Party holds minimal metropolitan seats across major citiesParty structure collapse: Lack of grassroots organization compared to historical ALP branchesDemographic breakdown: Libs losing women, young people, multicultural communities (except 65+ voters)Leadership pressure: Susan Ley facing potential challenge, comparisons to "Brendan Nelson months"Policy tensions: Net zero commitments causing internal fracturesNotable Quote: Troy Bramston - "There is no guarantee the Liberal Party will survive"Climate Policy and Net Zero Debate (07:10 - 14:40)Key Points:National Climate Risk Assessment Report findings:400% increase in heat-related mortality in Sydney2.7 million work days lost by 2061 due to heatwaves$600 billion property value losses by 2050$40 billion annual natural disaster costsPublic opinion: 77% of Australians want government climate actionPolitical implications: Andrew Hastie threatens to quit front bench over net zero policyInternational context: UK Tories' experience with climate policy costsVictorian Politics - Liberal Party Internal Struggles (21:00 - 26:00)Key Points:Philip Davis survives challenge from Greg Mirabella for Liberal Party State DirectorDiscussion of Labor government vulnerabilities despite Liberal Party dysfunctionAnalysis of "machete bins" controversy and opposition messaging failuresUnited States - Charlie Kirk Assassination (26:50 - 33:00)Key Points:Tyler Robertson (22) charged with Kirk's murderDiscussion of political discourse breakdown in AmericaSocial media radicalization of young menCriticism of premature political speculation (Barry Cassidy example)International AffairsUS-Korea Relations Crisis (33:15 - 36:50)ICE raid on 300 South Korean workers in Georgia battery facilityOnly one Korean worker chose to stay after offered returnImplications for US foreign investment attractivenessUK Political Upheaval (40:25 - 58:15)Major Topics:Tommy Robinson Rally: 100,000+ protesters in LondonImmigration tensions: 50,000 asylum seekers annuallyStarmer's crisis: Peter Mandelson appointment controversy (Jeffrey Epstein connections)Leadership challenges: Calls for Starmer's resignation from both left and rightConservative Party collapse: Danny Kruger defects to Reform UKFrance - Government Instability (62:30 - 64:00)Sébastien Le Corneau named new PM after confidence voteBudget crisis and spending control issuesMiddle East - Israel-US Tensions (64:00 - 67:30)Netanyahu takes responsibility for Al-Yudid airbase incidentDiscussion of Arab neighbors' role in regional solutionsQatari investment commitments to US ($3.3 trillion over decade)Sports Coverage (67:30 - 79:00)Spring Racing Carnival PreviewDiscussion of Melbourne Cup preparation and "pagan fertility festival" atmosphereNRL Finals AnalysisRaiders vs Broncos "golden point" thriller described as exceptional rugby leagueMelbourne, Sharks, Panthers, and Brisbane assessment for finalsAFL Finals PredictionsPreliminary Finals Preview:Hawthorn vs Geelong (favor Geelong by 20 points)Collingwood vs Brisbane (favor Collingwood)Praise for Josh Weddle (Hawthorn) and Jai Newcombe's finals performancesClosing Segment - Literary Humor (79:00 - 82:30)H.L. Mencken Epitaph: "If after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl"Spike Milligan Epitaph: "See, I told you I wasn't well"Proposed Episode Titles"Coalition Collapse: The Liberal Party's Existential Crisis""From Polls to Protest: Democracy Under Pressure""The Unraveling: Political Upheaval Across Three Continents""27% and Falling: When Political Parties Face Extinction""Net Zero, Net Loss: Climate Politics Reshaping the Right"Contact InformationTwitter: @JacktheInsiderEmail: ConditionerReleaseProgram@gmail.comEpisode Duration: 1 hour 22 minutes
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    1 hr and 24 mins
  • Episode 197 - March for Australia - Part 3 with Dave

    Episode 197 - March for Australia - Part 3 with Dave
    Sep 18 2025

    These AI slop shownotes are very funny. Third and final part of the series. Enjoy!

    PS - apologies for the delay on this release. It's still well worth the listen. I wanted to give it a proper edit but life is on ultra hard mode at the moment so it's going up in all its unvarnished glory!


    Joel Hill welcomes listeners to the Condition Release Program, substituting for the usual "Jackless" format by interviewing Dave about his weekend attending the controversial "March for Australia" rally in Sydney. The episode explores ground-level observations, organiser controversies, the interplay of far-right and conspiracist groups, and reflections on the fractured dynamics between organisers, attendees, and broader communities. The conversation highlights the worrying normalisation of Nazi participation in Australian street movements and the lack of timely mainstream media coverage or understanding.


    Character & Alias Mapping

    Alias/Nickname Real Name or Role Brief Description

    Joel Hill Joel Hill Host

    Dave Dave Guest/interviewee and rally attendee

    Beck/Beck Freedom Likely Rebecca (rally organiser) Central organiser, alleged to enable Nazis

    Monica Monica Smith Flip-flopping public figure

    Jesse Jesse Stewart, son of Tim Delivered rally banner

    Cossack Unspecified Figure in rally controversies

    NSN National Socialist Network Australian neo-Nazi group

    Guru Unspecified (conspiracist influencer) Referenced by attendees

    MGG Michael Gray-Grope Noted attendee, post-heart attack

    Dr. Nino ("Dr. Dan") Video/clip maker Influencer in the reporting scene

    Bozy/Hoodie/Onyx/Mark Mack Various minor far-right figures Referenced as speakers or organisers
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    51 mins