Chris

00:00 - 00:13

Really, what I wanna kinda start with is, what got you like, how did you get into sales? Like, how did that all happen? Because I saw your background was more engineering. So that's kinda where I'm very, like, curious about.

About.

Mark

00:13 - 02:34

Yeah. So, I was lucky enough in high school, when I started off, in high school, I was actually in a, class where we had, like, some Macs, some piece some IBM PCs.

And I didn't know anything about this, but there were some printers out there and the teacher was like, hey. Those printers aren't working.

And, I walked back there and I was like, well, what what's not why they're not working? They look powered on. And there's a little manual on the side, and I opened it up.

And I'm like, let me read this manual. And this is, oh, well, do this, do this.

And I just read it and did it. And then it just I'm like, hey, man, it's working now.

And so the teacher's like, oh, well, what'd you do? And that from that day forward, he's always using me for, like, technical support. And, and so, you know, one day the IBM guy was in there and he was like, hey, so I need I'm here to fix stuff.

The teacher was like, hey. Everything's working fine.

He's like, well, who's who's fixing it? They're like, that dude over there is, is a guy Mark who's fixing it. And so I went, you know, talk to him and he's like, hey.

Do you want a job at IBM? I was like, I'm not doing any better. Yeah.

I'll take a job at IBM. And so, you know, I started internship there.

And, and from there, I kinda just learned a lot about technology. I knew nothing about technology before that.

The nice thing about that that experience is, a lot of engineers are took me under their wing, and they just taught me a lot about engineering, diagrams, a lot about PC support. I just learned so much there in such a short amount of time.

And, eventually, I was doing desktop support for the VP of the site. And, the VP of the site, he, one day was was on his way to something called Comdex.

And, this was one of the big shows. Like, today, they have the the big CES show in in Vegas.

It was that that equivalent of the time. And he goes, Mark, what do you think of these demo demos we have here? And, I was just looking around working on his laptop, and, and it was just a bunch of spinning hard drives.

And I was like, you know, I go, Mike, they're they're pretty boring looking. You know? He's like, well, what would you do? And so, I said, well, you know, I I would do something way different.

And and, like, we're we're putting movies on the drives right now. We're, like, we're putting mapping systems.

Us like, the younger kids over there and the interns. Right? And then he's like, well, can you put something together? And I said, Yeah.

We'll we'll put something together. He goes, Great.

I'll see you in the morning, 8AM. And I'm like, Woah.

Woah....

Andrew

00:00 - 01:03

I'm Andrew Gross. I run our global sales team here at Excite, and I, run our US headquarters here out of our Hoboken office, right on the other side of the Hudson River in New Jersey.

And running global sales at Excite, if you haven't heard of the company, Excite, we do two very interesting things. One, and most importantly, is we provide the world's first managed services platform for integrators, resellers, installers, or really any technology, to start actually delivering on their managed service promise that we've talked so much about.

A signature on a contract is what a managed service promise was. Just the other thing that we do, very well is for hardware manufacturers who make something connected, and they wanna be able to offer a cloud based monitoring and management suite and potential business opportunities around the product, we offer a platform for them to build on top of it.

And what's nice is these two things, they meet in the middle where any hardware manufacturer that works with us directly to build this cloud based revenue generating platform on our foundation is also part of the ecosystem of the managed services platform that we're providing to their channel partners.

Chris

01:03 - 01:11

Yeah. And that kinda leads me into what I was gonna ask you is, what are the end users looking for when it comes to a managed services like solution?

Andrew

01:11 - 02:25

Most of the time and this is across enterprise, education, state, local government. It really doesn't matter.

They're all kinda looking for the same sort of things when it comes down to it. And they're very basic, really.

Right? They're buying technology. Right? There's no doubt that any one of these large consumers of technology, let's just say, you know, media technology in particular, AV, traditionally, but not so much AV, AV, UC, IT.

Over the last five years, especially since the return to office and everything, investments have been through the roof of this type of technology. Right? There's not a classroom or a conference room or a courtroom that you walk into that doesn't have cameras and speakers and microphones and touchpad.

It's crazy. They made this huge investment in physical technology.

They had to. Right? It was how people work nowadays.

But now we're at a point where, okay. Wow.

Great. I've made this great investment.

I now need to, a, get the most out of this investment, and I need to ensure that my return on this investment is actually happening because the it's only my return is only occurring if my technology is working. So that's where we are right now, is these customers are saying, I made this investment.

How do I ensure my return and really ensuring that it's operation that my investment is operational, and they're looking towards services support. From a resource standpoint,.

Chris

02:25 - 02:29

where are the end users in terms of being able to handle this type.

Andrew

02:29 - 02:49

of movement? It's it's minimal if if any at all. Typically have an IT support.

Maybe if you're lucky, you have an AV technician or AV support staff. And we're talking for thousands of rooms and tens of thousands of of tech of pieces of technology.

It it's unsustainable. It just truly is.

That that's what we're hearing the most.

Chris

02:49 - 03:14

When it comes to any data or information out there, as far as, you know, we have data and insights to talent acquisition process. Like, if you don't do this, there's a 60% chance you could be losing this type of talent.

When it comes to managed services and things that come up for the end users, is there any data around that around with, like, inefficiencies because they don't have that resource or that platform in place to let them know, like, what's actually going on with their solution...

Chris

00:00 - 00:10

Larry , in this conversation with Skip Level Talks , what I wanted to kinda share with the audience is , what is a skip level talk ? Because not everybody knows what that is.

Larry

00:10 - 01:05

Okay. That's easy.

If you're the leader , the VP of sales , the global sales leader , whatever you're called , the CRO , when you take the time to go a couple levels below where you are to get information. So if I'm a CRO , that might mean going to a sales manager.

You know , if I'm a VP of sales , that might mean going to a sales rep. But , you're just you're you're going a couple of levels below where you are to try to get some information that you think it can , you know , help the business.

And , I think I just think they're really important to do so that you stay attached to what's actually going on during the sales process of your organization. So , you know , it's a skip.

That's why I called a skip level. You're you're not going to the level that directly reports to you.

You're going somewhere below that level , and you're getting information.

Chris

01:05 - 01:09

Why are skip levels important for leaders ?

Larry

01:09 - 02:28

Well , they're important because if if something is happening that's really good in your organization , but you're only seeing it in pockets and rather than across the board , it's good to find to sit down with the people that are executing at a real high level , especially when it comes to individual contributors or sellers. It's really nice to be able to go call in , talk to those folks , and get a firsthand , feedback as to , you know , how they're able to be successful.

Why are they so successful executing where others are not ? And , you know , it's hard to get that. Even if you're you're very close to your team , you can get a feel for what it is , but to actually talk to the individuals that are that are executing out there in the field , it gives you the raw data , and and it's very useful to you when you start messaging to other people in the organization as to what's happening and why you're being successful.

But But it also can be helpful if if things aren't going so well and if you're losing opportunities or losing deals to go below the sales management level and talk directly to the sellers and get a get some feedback and what the challenges are at and get some feedback as to why they haven't met those challenges.

Chris

02:28 - 02:32

When do you utilize those skip levels ?

Larry

02:32 - 04:22

I can remember , when I was at the Tandberg organization , and we were working on you know , we sold , you know , infrastructure solutions , video infrastructure solutions. And we had you know , this one really hit me hard because we had we had some rich technology that we thought was pretty good.

And , we started to hear rumblings in the Salesforce that there was a newcomer in the business. And at that time , that newcomer was Codian.

And and they were being very successful at beating us when it came to video in infrastructure. And we were a bigger company , much stronger at the time.

We had a full suite of products. And so , typically , we would have an advantage in that area because we had a full suite of product.

But but this this company , this small company was doing extremely well. And I remember reaching out to one of my sellers at the time and asking them , you know , what what is it about this product ? And , the seller admitted to me that they had gone to get a demo of the product and , and that , you know , they went to see it.

Now this was one of my top guys , so I was a little nervous that they had actually gotten a demo of the product because that means they're talking to that company. So I'm a little nervous and , and he crystallized for me , and the...

Chris

0:00 - 00:51

As we're heading into the New Year, I'm definitely we're we're seeing a lot more CROs and VPs of sales joining companies. And one thing I've noticed over the years when it comes when connecting with leaders with them after, like, their 30, 60, 90 day value strategy planning is I I've seen sales methodologies change over the years, 10, 15 years ago.

Right? You had medic, med pick. You have one gap selling.

But the one thing I haven't seen really changed is that 30, 60, 90 day kind of eval that sales leaders use. And I've always been curious, you know, with you having 30 plus years of sales leadership experience, how do you feel about the 30, 60, 90 day plan as a sales leader who's joining an organization?

Larry

00:51 - 02:51

30, 60, 90 plans, I think, are good for building funnels, and understanding the revenue. So as a sales leader, I think it's different for a salesperson and than for a sales leader.

For a sales leader, I don't think about things in a 30, 60, 90 way coming into a new company. And I've done I've gone into new company multiple times.

When you walk into a new, sales environment, what I like to do is say, okay. What does my talent look like?

Who are my largest customers and what do they think of us? And from a sales organization that utilizes partners to accelerate the business, who are my best partners, and what do they think about us?

What is the sales compensation plan, and what does it push the people to try to achieve? Is it driving the right behavior?

So I'm looking at my people and my talent. I'm looking at my customers and what they think.

I'm looking at the partners and I'm looking at the comp plan. So I'm think, you know, I'm a sales leader.

I'm a CRO. Those are the most important things that I need to understand when I first walk into a business. And then number 2, my talent looks good.

And the way that you evaluate the talent is you actually talk to the sellers. So you you know you look at what they're doing and what they're achieving.

You talk to the top sellers in the organization so you can get a good feel for what's going on in the organizations. So I don't necessarily, as a new sales leader, box things into a 30, 60, 90.

I think really good sales leaders don't necessarily need the structure of a 30, 60, 90. What they need to do is know what the top things are and just aggressively pursue.

Chris

02:51 - 02:58

Where do you see in this process sales leaders getting snagged?

Larry

02:58 - 03:07

Well, I think that a lot of sales either come into an organization and realize that the organization has processes that just don't work.

Chris

03:07 - 03:08

Okay.

Larry

03:08 - 03:42

Okay? And and they can they're easy to see. They're low hanging fruit.

And so they start focusing on, I'm gonna fix all these processes. Well, I I think that's a big mistake.

And before you try to fix up fix sales processes or processes that look wrong in an organization is shouldn't you know about the people, the customers, and the partners first? I think you should.

Because if you're gonna be able to effectively fix whatever is broke, those are the people that are gonna tell you the things that are broke first.

Chris

03:42 - 03:56

Now when you talk about the putting your plan together, what are some of the unforeseen obstacles that would come up that were kind of out of your control?

What were some things that came up in that process?

Larry

03:56 - 04:14

Oh, well, some of the things that come that can come up that that really require your attention, so you better get it, but they're not fun to have to deal with.

You come into a sales organization and 2 or 3 of the...

00:00 - 00:15

You know , Larry , you've been a global sales leader for a very long time , have dealt with different size organizations. How important is it for the organization when it comes to developing a sales comp plan ?

00:15 - 01:36

I really feel like the development of the sales compensation plan is , is actually key to , building a successful team and having a successful business. And so I take the sales compensation plan really , really seriously.

There are different parts of the compensation plan. It's the quota development.

It's , are we going to pay on margin ? Are we going to pay on revenue ? And it is how frequently are we going to pay ? Are we going to pay bonuses ? How are we going to accelerate payment ? There's just so many factors to sales comp that are , are important. And if you get it right , it really drives the behavior of the salespeople.

And you want it to use it as a tool to drive the behavior of salespeople. So I just think it's really important to get that piece right.

And it does involve talking to , you know , if you're the sales leader , you , the CEO , the general manager , the operations people all have to be a part of this discussion with sales comp because whatever you decide to do , that's the behavior you're going to get from the salespeople. And it needs to reflect pieces of everybody's business.

So it Yeah. I just think it's key to the success of the company to get the sales comp right.

01:36 - 01:53

It's really interesting how many professionals are talking about , like , mid quarter change or a comp plan change. I see companies do that.

Would you ever part of those mid changes , or how do you feel about that stuff with organizations ? Because I could tell you the candidates do not like it.

01:53 - 04:04

Yeah. And they should.

Okay. You know , when you change a comp plan midstream , you only do that out of , like I'm I don't wanna use the word desperation , but you do it because it just has to be done.

And , and so who , I , I won't say you never do it because there are times where if you have totally screwed up your original comp plan and you're running out of money as a business because you're way overpaying your sales reps for revenue that's not bringing in margin dollars to pay it. You have to make a change.

So , but you have to really be in bad shape to do that. So you could tweak a comp plan mid midstream , but like you could decide that one of the products solutions that you guys are selling is generating higher margins than expected.

So let's drive the sellers that way by tweaking the comp plan and maybe giving them more quota credit for that particular product. Interesting.

Absolutely. You can do this in 2 different ways.

The comp plan is the comp plan , and you could say , right , we're gonna have a contest now. And you can tweak.

It's still the comp plan , but it's outside of the comp plan rule. So we're gonna have a contest now and try to drive our sellers toward selling this particular solution.

The other way is to actually tweak the comp plan and say , you know , we're paying 8% of revenue on that particular product. We're gonna pay 9 or something like that.

So you can do it. Either way , I I'd rather tweak the cop plan than have a whole lot of different contests.

Yeah. But I've been in organizations where that did contests , that really rewarded , solutions higher during certain parts of the year and , and have that work very effective.

So either way , as long as when you're tweaking it , you're not tweaking it so people get paid less. You if you're gonna tweak it , you always wanna tweak it so people get paid more.

04:04 - 04:11

Now as far as ,...

The question that I really wanna ask you is because you've led a lot of different teams in different environments and have had a lot of successful teams that you built out, I have no doubt that you've had your fair share of underperformers. How do you deal with underperformers?

S1

Speaker 1

00:16 - 01:54

The biggest challenge you have as a leader is to figure out why they're underperforming, what the problem is. And, the best way to do that is through coaching.

So the first place you look when you have people who are performing, it's are they hitting those KPIs or tables or whatever a business wants to call them, but the 3, they're the 3 or 4 things that a seller has to do to be successful. And so if you find out they're doing those things and yet they're still not being successful, then it's incumbent upon you as the sales leader.

And usually this is the first line sales leader. If you find it, this, this person, this individual is hitting all of their metrics that you felt were important to do it.

Then a lot of what you have to do is going to involve direct contact with that seller, going out and visiting customers with that seller and having discussions about those visits at the each visit. If you develop a culture of coaching, you can give constructive coaching to the individual.

When you look at all those metrics, if you can look at them and be really thinking constructively about how they can improve those tangibles, then you wanna talk to the individual about what they're doing long. What many sales leaders don't do is get involved to the detailed level, why they're not making those metrics.

And then when they do get involved, they don't provide proactive coaching because what's important is that that individual has to face up to what they're doing wrong, typically to to try to progress them to become a performer.

S0

Speaker 0

01:54 - 02:10

Anecdotally, just in conversations with leaders, I could say they're probably not doing this because the feedback I get from candidates is they've been told, you know, or coached out.

But the words you use or the tones you use, like how important is that?

S1

Speaker 1

02:10 - 04:29

You know, words are important, but the frequency of coaching is I think the critical factor.

I wasn't the kind of sales leader that looked to try to demean you. What I would like to do is just to talk about where you're doing well, where you're not doing well.

And if you're not making your number, it's a problem. And you need to know that it's a problem.

Sales leaders are funny. You know, one of the things they don't, most people don't make their quota. Like if I'm a sales manager, it's gonna be hard to make my quota if I don't keep a full staff.

So I can't have a lot of attrition and I can't be fired a whole lot of people. A lot of sales leaders will, permit underperformance to relax and just continue along their way because maybe they believe they've got some over performers that are going to cover up for them.

I never thought that was a good idea. I always thought that what you needed to do is to build up a funnel of potential candidates that you could always go to.

And so you're not, reluctant to have that tough conversation with your underperforming salesperson. So the idea that you go out with a salesperson and they do a whole lot of things wrong, and you say, oh, it was a pretty good call.

Yeah. You, you may wanna be able to think about doing this and doing that the next time. No, you can't do that.

You have to say, you know, the call was really bad. Okay.

That was not a pretty good call. Call was really bad.

You got to set the tone really upfront. The call was really bad.

I was disappointed that you let these things take place during the call. It doesn't appear to me that...

Welcome to Talent Acquired, a Chris Edward Consulting podcast hosted by Chris Nakiso, where we bring you the stories, strategies and the viewpoints of candidates, hiring managers and recruiters.

The world of talent acquisition has changed dramatically in the last decade. It feels like not so long ago when we printed curriculums and took them to an office dressed in a suit and tie. Now, recruiting has merged with technology, and the way of applying, and interviewing for a position is very different. In this episode of Talent Acquired, Chris talks to his long-time friend and colleague, Leah Harrigan Verouden, Founder of Career Copilots and Talent Acquisition Partner at WestJet. Leah has a long career working on talent acquisition and has helped some of the world’s biggest companies like Google find and hire the best professionals out there. In this conversation, Leah shares her expertise and tells you how to work LinkedIn to your favor, tips for a successful online interview and shares exactly what to do if you don't hear back from your dream job. Tune in and learn the best practices and how to avoid common mistakes from a recruiting professional!

Jump straight into:

00:10 - Leah’s background on talent acquisition for the world’s biggest companies - “When Google calls, you answer. Essentially I packed up my belongings and skipped countries to head over to the States and help with their hiring.”

02:51 - Career coaching with Leah’s consulting company Career Copilot - “I've got about 12 years of in-house recruitment and agency recruitment, so I've converted that into a business that allows me to give behind the scenes knowledge.”

05:33 - How hiring has dramatically changed over the last years - “The item that I noticed that has changed the most is that always-on job searcher. Having something like a LinkedIn, you can be found at any hour of the day!”

09:02 - The importance of LinkedIn in today’s recruiting processes - “Legitimately massive companies are still proactively recruiting people that they want to come join them. LinkedIn remains such a hot tool.”

12:41 - Tips and tricks on how to have a perfect LinkedIn profile - “What are your values? What's important to you? It's an opportunity to highlight the things that maybe don't show up in a job description.”

14:02 - Common mistakes: The new norms for professionals - “I think people are getting too casual. If you're interviewing and you're on a video interview, that's still an interview.”

21:09 - Why am I not hearing back after my job application? - “Depending on the scale of the company and the vast number of resumes they might be getting, there might not actually be a person on the other end reviewing each and every resume so that sometimes is also why people don't hear back.”

26:48 - Where is the recruiting world going in the next 10 years? - “I think the way we use LinkedIn, the way we use social media, the way we use things like video are going to replace a lot of those traditional job searches and how you attract candidates.”

Resources

Connect with Leah through LinkedIn or via email

Thanks for tuning in, if you want to know more, please visit our website. This show has been produced by StudioPod, for more information about their service, you can visit their

Welcome to Talent Acquired, a Chris Edward Consulting podcast hosted by Chris Nakiso, where we bring you the stories, strategies and the viewpoints of candidates, hiring managers and recruiters.

Is today’s situation the perfect opportunity for hiring managers to get exceptional talent? Should your corporation be looking at profiles from outside the industry to cover key positions?

In today’s episode, Chris talks to Luis Berlanga, Senior Sales Manager for Smart Collaboration North America at Lenovo about recruiting during COVID19 and the opportunities that remote work can offer. Plus, he tells us why the future for IT is definitely the cloud and what we should be looking forward to regarding collaboration spaces. Join this conversation now and learn firsthand how big companies like Lenovo find the best talent for their teams!

Jump straight into:

(05:22) - Recruiting on times of COVID19: How do successful companies get the best talent - “ I want people that are looking to create momentum and really move from one stage of growth into another explosive growth. And I think that's the opportunity at hand with what we are doing now.”

(07:09) - Should you get talent from outside the industry? - “The challenge that most hiring managers have is that the people that you want usually aren't looking for jobs. They're not looking for work, they're not out there.”

(12:16) - How to get out of an old hiring mentality - “If you're trying to talk about the old days to customers that are buying now and that are buying differently, those are the things you really have to care and feed for.”

(14:54) - What is the future of collaboration spaces? - “The number one priority for IT buyers today is to get their applications into the cloud and their number two priority is to get video turned on everywhere.”

(15:49) - The magic of today's accessible technology - “If you look at all of 2020, and up to the pandemic, everybody got shut down and sent home and had to continue working in different ways. You couldn't have done that in the past.”

Resources

Connect with Luis through LinkedIn

Thanks for tuning in, if you want to know more, please visit our website. This show has been produced by StudioPod, for more information about their service, you can visit their website.